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HomeMy WebLinkAbout03/13/07 P&Z MINUTES CITY OF THE COLONY PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION March 13, 2007 After determining that a quorum was present, the Planning and Zoning Commission of the City of The Colony, Texas convened into regular session which was held on March 13, 2007 at 6:30 p.m. in the City Council Chambers located in City Hall, 6800 Main Street, The Colony, Texas, at which time the following items were addressed: Present: DeVille Hubbard, Marlene Milsak, Michael Barrett, Brian Wade, Debbie Morrison, Karen Hames Absent: Fernando Villarreal Chairman Wade called the meeting to order at 6:30 p.m. \ 1.0 I CALL REGULAR SESSION TO ORDER 2.0 T CONSENT AGENDA 2.1 Consider approval of the minutes of the February 27, 2007 Regular Session. It was moved by Commissioner Hames to approval of minutes for February 27, 2007, seconded by Commissioner Barrett. Motion carried (6-0) 3.0 \ PUBLIC HEARING 3.1 Conduct a public hearing, discuss and consider making a recommendation to the City Council on a Specific Use Permit for a restaurant with beer, wine and/or alcohol sales. The property is located north of South Colony Blvd, approximately 230 feet west of the intersection of South Colony Blvd and Main Street. The property is commonly known as 4649 S. Colony Blvd. (See Attachment 1) Wes Morrison, City Planner, presented the staff report and recommended approval of the request. The applicant was not present for comment. There were no questions or comments from the Commission. No public was present to speak for or against the request. Chairman Wade closed the public hearing. Commissioner Karen Hames moved to recommend approval of the requested for on premises consumption only. Seconded by Commissioner Milsak. Motion carried (6-0) 3.2 Continue a public hearing, discuss and consider making a recommendation to the City Council regarding rezoning Planned Development 9 (PD-9) to an Agricultural zoning district. The 300 +/- acre property is located east and west of Piano Parkway on the south side of State Highway 121 (5107-0001, Maharishi Tract). (See Attachment 1) Wes Morrison, City Planner, presented the staff report which included a chronology of the previous zoning cases on the property. Chairman Wade opened the public hearing. Jeff Connelly spoke in favor of rezoning property to Agricultural zoning. James DePiazza clarified his words taken out of context at the previous meeting. Planning and Zoning Commission March 13,2007 Page 2 of 2 David Humphrey requested his attorney Lloyd Ward to speak as legal representative. Mr. Ward stated that the property will not sale any faster if the property was zoned agricultural. Mr. Ward stated that as a representative of the property owner they are opposed to rezoning of the property. Chairman Wade moved to rezone the property from Planned Development 9 to Agricultural as presented by staff, seconded by Commissioner Barrett, Motion carried (6-0). 3.3 Conduct a public hearing, discuss, and consider making a recommendation to the City Council regarding Section 6-21 of the Code of Ordinances, Sign Regulations. (SI06-0020, Sign Ordinance Amendment). (See Attachment 1) Wes Morrison, City Planner, presented the staff report where highlights of the changes were outlined in addition to recommendations from the Code Enforcement Advisory Board. Commissioner Hubbard inquired about projecting signs, staff used Blockbuster as an example of a projecting sign. Commissioner Hubbard questioned if a vehicle sign on a car that is for sale would be approved, staff clarified the definition of vehicular signs. Chairman Wade presented questions as to the reasoning behind prohibiting searchlight signs. The commission discussed prohibiting searchlights and decided to stay with staff's recommendation. Commissioner Hubbard motion to approve as submitted in packet. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Milsak. Motion carries (6-0) 14.0 I DIRECTOR'S REPORT Meeting adjourned at 7:25 pm. Attachments: Attachment 1 - Transcript of Public Hearing ~7'-7)J ~~ Recording secretary 1 \' 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ( 1 Attachment 1 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION THE COLONY, TEXAS MARCH 13, 2007 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * @@~w PUBLIC HEARING, taken on the 13th day of March, A.D" 2007, from 6:30 p.m. to 7:24 p.m., before Carla J. Shanks, Certi fi ed Shorthand Reporter No. 5054 in and for the State of Texas, located at 6800 Main Street, in the City of The Colony, State of Texas. LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 2 1 A P PEA RAN C E S: ( 2 MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION MR. BRIAN WADE 3 MS. KAREN HAMES MS. DEBBIE MORRISON 4 MS. DONNA BATEMAN MR. MIKE BARRETT 5 MS. MARLENE MILSAK MR. DEVILLE HUBBARD 6 7 ALSO PRESENT MR. J. DAVID DODD III 8 MR. WES MORRISON MS. PAT DOMINGUEZ 9 MS. ANGELA PUENTE 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 3 PRO C E E DIN G S 1 ( 2 MR. WADE: Good evening, and welcome 3 to the Planning and Zoning meeting for the City of 4 The Colony. It is March 13th, 2007, approximately 18:28:25 5 six-thirty p.m. We would like to call the regular 6 session to order. 7 Item 2.0, consent to agenda items. 8 Consider approval of the minutes of the February 9 27th, 2007 regular session. Anyone care to make a 18:28:40 10 motion on this item? 11 MS. HAMES: I move we approve the 12 mi nutes. 13 MR. BARRETT: Second. 14 MR. WADE : All those in favor, say 18:28:52 15 aye. Aye. 16 MS. HAMES: Aye. MS. MORRISON: Aye. MS. BATEMAN: Aye. MR. BARRETT: Aye. MS. MILSAK: Aye. MR. HUBBARD: Aye. 17 18 19 18:28:53 20 21 22 MR. WADE: Those opposed? Extensions? 23 Motion carries. 24 Item 3.1, conduct a public hearing. 18:29:02 25 Di scuss and consi der maki ng a recommendati on to the LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 I ( 2 3 4 18:29:17 5 6 7 8 9 18:29:31 10 11 12 13 14 18:29:45 15 16 17 18 19 18:30:02 20 21 22 23 24 18:30:14 25 4 City Council on a specific use permit for a restaurant with beer, wine and/or alcohol sales. Property is located north of South Colony Boulevard, approximately 230 feet west of the intersection of South Colony Boulevard and Main Street. The property is commonly known as 4649 South Colony Boulevard. Before we begin, I'd like to read the procedures we will be following this evening. The chair opens the public hearing. Staff gives its report and makes its recommendation. Persons in favor are each granted five minutes to speak. Persons in opposition are each granted five minutes to speak. Chair closes the public hearing. Staff presents final remarks. Any speaker may be allowed additional time to speak by consensus of a majority minus one for an additional three minutes. Each speaker should concern himself/herself with presenting new information not given by previous speakers. Commissioners may ask questions of anyone and call on the staff at any time and may adjourn to executive session as allowed by law. The public hearing is now open, and we will receive a report from staff. Wes? MR. MORRISON: Thank you, Mr. LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 5 ( 1 Chairman, Commissioners. As you say, this is a 2 specific use permit request to allow for beer, wine 3 and/or liquor sales at a restaurant location. The 4 location is about 230 feet west of the intersection 18:30:29 5 of South Colony and Mai n Street, commonl y known as 6 4649 South Colony. 7 For those of you who have been on the 8 board for a while, you have seen this come before you 9 in recent years, because this has been several 18:30:42 10 di fferent restaurant si tes, and they have all come 11 before you to ask for this particular SUP use to 12 allow for alcohol, wine and beer and liquor. 13 The request has not changed very much. In 14 any specific use permit request, staff analyzes their 18:30:57 15 fourteen requi rements set out by the zoni ng 16 ordinance, and at this time, staff has reviewed those 17 requirements in conjunction with the request, and 18 this application meets all of those fourteen 19 requirements. The applicants have presented a site 18:31:12 20 pl an, whi ch is before you toni ght, and has met the 21 requirements of the ordinance. 22 The development review committee 23 recommends approval of the site plan or the SUP as 24 presented, and the applicant does not appear to be 18:31:2725 here tonight, but I'm available for any questions you LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 6 1 might have. ( 2 MR. WADE: Thank you, Wes. Any 3 questions from the Commission to Wes or staff? No 4 questions? Since this is a public hearing, I'll open 18:31:45 5 it up to the publ i c. Anyone wi shi ng to speak in 6 favor or opposition on this item may come forward and 7 speak on this item. 8 Since no one is rushing up here to speak, 9 the public hearing is now closed. And if anyone has 18:32:0310 any questions or comments, I'll entertain a motion 11 for this item. 12 MS. HAMES: I move to recommend 13 approval of the requested specific use permit for 14 on-premises consumption only. 18:32:20 15 MS. MORRISON: I'll second. 16 MR. WADE : All those in favor, say 17 aye. Aye. 18 MS. HAMES: Aye. MS. MORRISON: Aye. MS. BATEMAN: Aye. MR. BARRETT: Aye. MS. MILSAK: Aye. MR. HUBBARD: Aye. 19 18:32:26 20 21 22 23 24 MR. WADE: Those opposed? Extensions? 18:32:31 25 Motion carries. LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 7 1 Item 3.2, continue the public hearing, ( 2 discuss and consider making a recommendation to City 3 Council regarding rezoning Planning and Development 9 4 to an agricultural zoning district. The 300 plus or 18:32:43 5 mi nus acres of property is located east and west of 6 Plano Parkway on the south side of State Highway 121. 7 Public hearing is now open, and we will receive a 8 report from Wes. 9 MR. MORRISON: Thank you, Mr. 18:32:54 10 Chai rman, Commi ssi on. As you conti nue, thi s is a 11 continued public hearing from our previous meeting on 12 February 27th. That meeting was continued really on 13 the basis to give staff a little bit more opportunity 14 to review the information that was presented by the 18:33:08 15 publ i c at that meeti ng. 16 So what I've done for you tonight in your 17 backup and here on the overhead is just kind of 18 provide you a chronology of exactly all the zoning 19 changes that has taken place on this particular piece 18:33:19 20 of property over the past twel ve years or so. 21 So we're going to start back in October 22 17th of '94. Counci 1 adopted an ordi nance 23 establishing PD-9, which consisted at that time of 24 779 acres located north of 121 and 332 acres located 18:33:40 25 south of 121. On February 3rd of '97, Counci 1 ( LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 8 ( 1 adopted an ordinance that amended PD-9 to carryover 2 part of 456 acres. That's now known as PD-14, 3 otherwise known as The Legends. 4 On January -- I'm sorry, on July 26th of 18:34:05 5 1999 the Counci 1 adopted an ordi nance amendi ng PD-9 6 to PD-16, which was approximately 271 acres, which is 7 now known today as Cascades. May 15th of 2000, the 8 Council and Planning and Zoning Commission held a 9 joint hearing for the zoning change from PD-9 to 18:34:2310 PD-17. At that meeting, no action was taken. 11 On August 8th of 2000, the Planning and 12 Zoning Commission recommended approval of the zoning 13 change from PD-9 to 17. In September of 2000, 14 Council denied that zoning change request from PD-9 18:34:35 15 to PD-17. 16 On April 9th of 2002, the Planning and 17 Zoning Commission recommended approval of the 18 development plan for PD-9 with four stipulations. 19 Mainly those stipulations were related to the 18:34:51 20 wi deni ng of 121, the uncertai nty of how much 21 right-of-way would be required at that time. Those 22 were the basis of those four stipulations. 23 June 17th of 2002, Counci 1 hel d thei r 24 first public hearing on the development plan for 18:35:0525 PD-9. At that time, the item was tabled to allow for LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 (y,,- 2 3 4 18:35:19 5 6 7 8 9 18:35:37 10 11 12 13 14 18:35:50 15 16 17 18 19 18:36:05 20 21 22 23 24 18:36:26 25 9 a work session. July 1st of 2002, Council approved the development plan for PD-9 with sixteen stipulations. At that time, no ordinance was adopted. On October 11th of 2005, the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended approval of the proposed City-initiated zoning change from PD-9 to agricultural district. March 6th of 2006, City Council held a public hearing on the zoning change from PD-9 to agricultural district. At that time, no action was taken. On April 6th of 2006, Council denied the City-initiated zoning change from PD-9 to agricultural district. Just recently, February 5th of 2007, Council directed staff to start the rezoning process from PD-9 to an agricultural district, and as all of you are aware, on February 27th the Planning and Zoning Commission held a public hearing regarding the City-initiated rezoning from PD-9 to an agricultural district. At this time, staff, as directed by the Planning and Zoning Commission, has provided you a detailed chronology of all the zoning cases on this property, and I'm willing to answer any questions that you might have. LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 18:36:41 5 6 7 8 9 18:37:03 10 11 12 13 14 18:37:19 15 16 17 18 19 18:37:31 20 21 22 23 24 18:37:46 25 10 MR. WADE: Thank you, Wes. Any questions to Wes or staff? No questions? Okay. Since this is a public hearing, we will anyone wishing to come forward to speak in favor or in opposition of this matter is granted five minutes to speak. Jeff Conley? MR. CONLEY: Good evening. My name is Jeff Conley, 5829 Concord Lane. I'm just here again to ask that you guys reaffirm your earlier decision to rezone this back to ago On the first public hearing to readdress this, there was some thoughts conveyed by the owner of the property that this is somehow a hostile act by the City. And it's not. It's well within the City's rights to review the comprehensive plan, but that each of you, when you became P & Z commissioners, that was one of the duties that was described as to constantly review that plan and constantly updating what's the best use for the land. It's not hostile for you guys to go back and look at your overlays and update those as well, which was done. So again, based on that, there is no hostile act here by the City. We're all within our rights to do this. Secondly, what I want to point out is that LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 <,' 3 4 18:38:03 5 6 7 8 9 18:38:16 10 11 12 13 14 18:38:36 15 16 17 18 19 18:38:48 20 21 22 23 24 18:39:04 25 1 1 when I served on P & Z, one of the things I enjoyed most of about it was I didn't have to worry how I felt about it. I couldn't bring my subjective feelings into anything. It was an executive decision, and it was very simple. Did the applicant meet the criteria that they needed to meet in order to get their change approved. In this case, we have the City who is the applicant. They probably have certain criteria that they have to meet in order to get the change. If they met A, Band C and that's what it takes, then your job is easy. All you have to do is approve. Doesn't matter if you like it, doesn't matter if you feel the applicant may go outside of this hearing to other means to try to get their way. It simply means that we take what's before us, judge whether or not it was done within the right manners and rules of the ordinance and approve yea or nay. And that's what I ask you guys to do. Based on what I've seen, what I know about it, this particular land, there is nothing to prevent it from going back to ago The City is well within its rights. Therefore, you guys can vote yea to reaffirm your earlier decision. Thank you. MR. WADE: Thank you, Mr. Conley. LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 18:39:19 5 6 7 8 9 18:39:37 10 11 12 13 14 18:39:53 15 16 17 18 19 18:40:03 20 21 22 23 24 18:40:18 25 12 Anyone else wishing to come forward and speak in favor or opposition of this item? Please state your name and address. MR. DEPIAZZA: James Depiazza, 4317 Ireland Drive, and I just wanted to restate my request that you -- on the changing on this zoning, and I wanted to clarify something that was brought up by -- one of the representatives of the fund last time took my words out of context. I just wanted to make sure that the public did not take it the wrong way either. When I had made the statement that the amount that the fund was asking for the property, I did an analogy about the price of the house, and my reason for that wasn't to tell the Commission how much they should sell the property for, but as a resident of this city, I don't expect somebody to come to me and tell me that they are serious about selling the land, but then setting a price for it that's more than what their land is worth. That was the reason for my comments. And lastly, I would just like to add that currently that property is agricultural. I've driven past there on numerous times and seen steers, cows, cattle on the property. So it's agricultural. LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 13 So my request to the Commission is to 1 (' 2 recommend that this gets changed back to agricultural 3 so it meets exactly what its purpose is at this 4 point. Thank you. 18:40:33 5 MR. WADE: Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. 6 Humphreys. 7 MR. HUMPHREYS: Hi. My name is Davi d 8 Humphreys. I'm a representative for the Maharishi 9 Global Development Fund. I'm just going to introduce 18:40:43 10 Lloyd Ward, who is the counsel hel pi ng us wi th thi s 11 matter, and then I'll ask him to say a few words. 12 MR. WARD: Thank you. Ladies and 13 gentlemen, one of the things that the notice sent 14 out, I was curi ous about it, to be qui te frank wi th 18:41:0015 you, and after having heard the presentation made, 16 I'm still a bit curious about, and that is whether 17 the City is talking about the fact that my clients 18 have failed to meet some pre-existing criteria and 19 therefore there is going to be a revocation of the 18:41:15 20 exi sti ng zoni ng, bri ngi ng it back down to ag, or 21 whether this is going to be looking at a rezoning 22 issue. 23 In other words, it's PD-9 now. You're 24 going to vote, you're simply going to rezone it back 18:41:27 25 down to agricultural. I'm not sure that that's been \, LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 14 ( 1 addressed, and those are two separate issues, because 2 I think the P & Z Board needs to have a few more 3 details brought out. 4 One is the fact that in fact my clients 18:41:45 5 di d present a pl an to thi s board, and as a matter of 6 fact, we have a copy of the plan, which was brought 7 before the board on May it was completed as a 8 matter of fact, there were plans that were put before 9 the board as far back as August of 2001, and a master 18:42:13 10 development plan was submitted to the board sometime 11 after 4/8 of '02. That master development plan was 12 done by Hodges & Associates and was in fact a master 13 development plan. 14 The City at that point in time, the P & Z 18:42:30 15 Board at that poi nt inti me took the master 16 development plan and in fact approved that plan. 17 Now, they approved that plan with certain 18 stipulations involved. And in fact, they retained 19 outside counsel, a Mr. Terry Morgan of Terry Morgan & 18:42:47 20 Associ ates, who issued a 1 etter to Robert Reed, who 21 was the counsel for my client back at that point in 22 time. This is back in June of 2002. 23 And what he points out is that while there 24 are some things that need to be addressed in the 18:43:00 25 pl an, these ordi nances requi re that the development LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 18:43:17 5 6 7 8 9 18:43:33 10 11 12 13 14 18:43:50 15 16 17 18 19 18:44:08 20 21 22 23 24 18:44:19 25 15 plan conform with the conceptual plan. The time for conforming is when action is taken of the development plan, not in the future. Essentially what he comes to is he points out some of the irregularities, but he points out to the City Council as well as to the P & Z Board that the plan is in compliance. Now, some of the things that the City wanted done when they did a breakdown and analysis and again, among the items which we have is answers to staff stipulations, is in fact that a number of these items had to do with these items cannot be done until Texas DOT decides what, if any, land it wishes to take. See reporter's record, trial transcripts, et cetera, et cetera. But a large portion of the items which my client would have had to have fixed, as a matter of fact, almost all of the items which were not in compliance, we had to wait until the Texas Department of Transportation had their final hearings, decided what property they were going to take, took that property. We went through the entire lawsuit of letting them take that property, the amount of the property, how much is going to be paid for the property. Also as a footnote, while I've heard LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 (' . . 2 3 4 18:44:34 5 6 7 8 9 18:44:48 10 11 12 13 14 18:45:05 15 16 17 18 19 18:45:21 20 21 22 23 24 18:45:38 25 16 individuals complain about the asking price of their property, I think it is of note that in fact the Texas Department of Transportation ended up agreeing with us as what to the value of the property was. If anybody here is familiar with condemnation suits, you know that the Texas Department of Transportation doesn't give money away, and in fact, we had to have court rulings to determine the value of the property, so we did not overvalue the property by any stretch of the imagination. The other thing to take into consideration is this, and that is this property was zoned PD-9 in 1994. This isn't something that we came before the board in 2004 and 2002 and asked the board to change the PD zoning for. It's been that way since 1994, which would have been over six years prior to my clients ever even owning that property. They're now asking for a change in the PD zoning of this. There is no benefit to this City by changing the current zoning. One of the things you're not going to hear is a single solitary benefit. And as a matter of fact, if the goal of this board is to get that property developed, it is in exact opposition to what the goal is. If this property is reduced back down to LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 18:45:54 5 6 7 8 9 18:46:14 10 11 12 13 14 18:46:29 15 16 17 18 19 18:46:45 20 21 22 23 24 18:46:58 25 17 agricultural, one, it makes the sale of that property more difficult. Second, any sale of that property would be preconditioned upon being able to obtain proper zoning and PD approval. Say whatever you will, that's going to stretch out any development. If we entered into a contract tomorrow, that would stretch out the ability to consummate that and begin construction by no less than one year. I'd ask you all to take that into consideration, and now I'll yield to my client. MR. WADE: Thank you. Are you finished? MR. WARD: Yes, sir. MR. WADE: Thank you. MR. HARDY: I'd just like to bring up a couple of points. First, there seems to be some idea that this is going to inspire us or motivate us to sell the property, when in fact my counsel was saying that this would more than anything inhibit us from selling the property, because until we find the right buyer at the right price, we're not going to sell it. And this stripping the rights away from the property just makes it a longer time period for us to move the property, which is our intent, and LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 18 ( 1 that's why we're opposing this and opposing this 2 vigorously, because we see it for what it is. It's 3 undermining our ability to sell the property, which 4 is our desire, and once we sell it, then that's the 18:47:13 5 next phase of development, whi ch is what y' all want. 6 So it seems that we would have the same, 7 we would have the same action steps as far as what we 8 want to see done, which is see the property sold and 9 developed, and you have the same desire also, but 18:47:2810 this action is contrary to that. And that's why we 11 so vigorously oppose it. Thank you. 12 MR. WADE: Thank you. Anyone else 13 wishing to come forward and speak for this item? 14 Since no one is coming forward, the public hearing is 18:47:50 15 now closed, and I wi 11 entertai n a moti on for thi s 16 item, if anyone wants to care to make a motion. 17 MS. HAMES: Can I ask a question? MR. WADE: Sure. 18 19 MS. HAMES: Just for cl ari ty, because 18:48:01 20 the ownershi p of the 1 and or it was changed to PD-9 21 so long ago, it is obviously not under our 121 22 overlay, which we have just designed. 23 correct? Is that 24 MS. BATEMAN: The property is located 18:48:18 25 wi thi n the 121 order master pl an area, yes. LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 18:48:32 5 6 7 8 9 18:48:47 10 11 12 13 14 18:49:01 15 16 17 18 19 18:49:15 20 21 22 23 24 18:49:29 25 19 MS. HAMES: But would they be required to follow our new standards that we have set up for that? MS. BATEMAN: The Gateway overlay district regulations, per the issues that are addressed in the Gateway overlay district would be required. They would have to follow those if they are not specifically spelled out in their current PD. MS. HAMES: Do we know if that's the case? MS. BATEMAN: The PD is pretty old, and so it's not, it's not as detailed as you would see newer PDs. MS. HAMES: Okay. MR. BARRETT: There is a question of the -- MR. WADE: Yeah, okay. Davi d, did you have something a moment ago? MR. DODD: I'm fine. I forgot what it was. If it comes back, I'll say somethi ng. MR. WADE: Everyone want to 1 et David think about it for a few more minutes? MR. DODD: If it were that important, that would be all right. But go ahead. MR. WADE: Does anyone else have any LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 20 1 questions or comments? DeVille? ( 2 MR. HUBBARD: No. 3 MR. WADE: No? Would anyone care to 4 make a motion on this item? If not, I'll make a 18:49:51 5 motion to -- let's see, I move to approve zoning 6 change from PD-9 to agricultural as presented by 7 staff. 8 MR. BARRETT: I'll second. 9 MR. WADE : All those in favor, say 18:50:06 10 aye. Aye. 11 MS. HAMES: Aye. MS. MORRISON: Aye. MS. BATEMAN: Aye. MR. BARRETT: Aye. MS. MILSAK: Aye. MR. HUBBARD: Aye. MR. WADE: Those opposed? Extensions? 12 13 14 18:50:08 15 16 17 18 Motion carries. 19 Item 3.3, conduct a public hearing and 18:50:1520 discuss and consider making a recommendation to the 21 City Council regarding Section 6.21 of the Code of 22 Ordinances, sign regulations. The public hearing is 23 now open, and we will receive a report from staff. 24 Wes? 18:50:26 25 MR. MORRISON: Thank you, Mr. LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 18:50:40 5 6 7 8 9 18:50:54 10 11 12 13 14 18:51:12 15 16 17 18 19 18:51:26 20 21 22 23 24 18:51:43 25 ( 21 Chairman, Commissioners. Just a real brief background and history as to why this is coming before you and really what's been going on with this case. Back in October of 2006, Council discussed several areas of sign ordinance that they desired to see changed. And given that, they kind of directed staff to go forward and make those changes. Following that meeting, staff went through and really thoroughly reviewed the ordinance and found that there were some issues that may need to be addressed in this rewrite. By doing that, we have completely rewritten the sign ordinance to kind of, one, make it a little bit more user friendly, make it a little bit more pleasant to our legal staff. We recommended that we make some changes regarding specific content material and that type of stuff. In January of this year, we took the draft ordinance to the Code Enforcement Advisory Board. At that time, some major topics of discussion were the temporary sign regulations, regulation of menu boards, and the measurement of monument signs. We took that ordinance back to the Code Enforcement Advisory Board in February of this year, and I think they were pretty much happy with all the changes we made from the January meeting, although LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 18:52:01 5 6 7 8 9 18:52:17 10 11 12 13 14 18:52:28 15 16 17 18 19 18:52:42 20 21 22 23 24 18:52:59 25 22 they had some other concerns and mainly -- or focusing on banner regulations, permitting process, window lights and search lights and restrictions on signs along State Highway 121. Just to kind of give you a brief overview as to the big changes in the sign ordinance that have happened, I've provided here a chart that kind of shows current versus proposed. Right now, I'm just going to go through this real quickly. If there are any questions, please just yell at me and I'll cover them at that point. Awning sign, right now we have no regulations for an awning sign, so what we're proposing is that the awning sign, one, must be on the awning, two, can only be a maximum of ten percent of the awning. Actually, I apologize. That government kiosk sign should be deleted, so just ignore that one. The reason for that is that just recently we decided to take down government kiosk signs. We have been in conversations with our Parks Department, and given their needs for certain signs in the city, and as far as two departments working together, we thought it would be best if the Parks Department would come up with their own sign policy. The only LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 18:53:08 5 6 7 8 9 18:53:29 10 11 12 13 14 18:53:49 15 16 17 18 19 18:54:05 20 21 22 23 24 18:54:16 25 23 reason we had governmental signs in there was just to allow for the Parks Department to do what they needed to do. Since they are going to create their own policy, we can probably take them all out. So ignore any reference to governmental kiosk signs. There should be no reference in there. Menu boards, right now, the basis for menu boards should be 7 feet in height and 35 square feet in area. Single-tenant monument signs would be right now they are proposed at 10 feet in height, 80 square feet in area. Right now they are at 10 feet in height and 100 square feet in area. Multi-tenant monument signs would be 20 feet in height and 150 square feet in area. They are proposed to be 30 feet in height and 150 square feet in area. Movement control signs, which is one sign that can be exempt from our regulations, would be 6 feet in height and 5 square feet in area. Our proposed ordinance would be 4 and a half feet in height and 3 square feet in area. Projecting signs, we have no regulations for those right now, and the only regulation we have placed on those is they cannot extend above the roof of the building. Pylon signs, there is no change there, and LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 (" 2 3 4 18:54:36 5 6 7 8 9 18:54:53 10 11 12 13 14 18:55:03 15 16 17 18 19 18:55:17 20 21 22 23 24 18:55:30 25 24 wall signs we changed up just for a little bit more enforcement, ease of enforcement, I guess. Right now the requirement is 36 feet in height and 100 square feet in area. If you have a -- you can go up in height versus how much you have in area, so again, we tried to even those two out a little bit. Temporary signs, this was a major point of concern and discussion of the Code Enforcement Advisory Board, and I suspect it will be a major point of discussion here. Maybe not. Maybe we did it right and y'all are happy. The garage sale -- what we have tried to do is we have tried to combine signs. We have tried to make it real easy for one for the public and one for enforcement. So what we have done is we have combined garage sale and open house signs. Now, time frames have changed a little bit, and we'll get to that later, but as far as sizes and heights and that type of stuff, most of these have stayed basically the same, and that was based on recommendation from the Code Enforcement Advisory Board. The one major change that you can see is the political signs, and that's done purely because state law regulates exactly what can be done and what can be regulated with political signs, so we're LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 18:55:45 5 6 7 8 9 18:55:59 10 11 12 13 14 18:56:14 15 16 17 18 19 18:56:25 20 21 22 23 24 18:56:38 25 25 following state law there, which is 30 square feet in area and 8 feet in height. Temporary signs, these are the time frames. Based on communication with our Code Enforcement Department, they suggested we keep this the same, just for the fact that the public already knows these time frames, they are comfortable with these time frames, staff is comfortable with them, so why mess up a good thing. So right now it's they can put them out anywhere from Friday at eight a.m. and they have to be down by Monday at eight a.m. Property sale and lease temporary signs, the current regulation says that it has to be down after the property is sold. There is really no defining time as to when that is. We're proposing that they have to be down within 72 hours of the lease or sale. Political signs, there are no requirements. Again, we are taking the requirements that are in the Texas MS. BATEMAN: Transportation Code. MR. MORRISON: Transportation Code. Thank you. Again, stop me along the way if there are any questions. MR. HUBBARD: Do we currently have any LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 18:56:52 5 6 7 8 9 18:57:06 10 11 12 13 14 18:57:20 15 16 17 18 19 18:57:32 20 21 22 23 24 18:57:48 25 26 property sale/lease signs that are larger than 60 square feet, 10 feet high? MR. MORRISON: Possibly. I don't know all the signs that are out there. We did a very thorough survey of just different signs throughout the city. Could we have missed one? Possibly. MR. HUBBARD: And the second question, projecting signs, do you have any background of other cities that -- I think I know what you're talking about, because I think I've seen some before, but they can be pretty big, can't they? MR. MORRISON: Let me ask you a question. Are you asking what a projecting sign is? MR. HUBBARD: Tell me what a projecting sign is. MR. WADE: I was going to get to that when we came to any questions for the Commission staff. Is it like the Batman sign where you project up into the sky or the Kroger sign or the Wal-Mart sign? MS. BATEMAN: Here's a good example is the Blockbuster Video next door. The Blockbuster has an awning around the outside, and the awning projects pretty far out, I mean, almost maybe eighteen inches, projects out away from the building. That would be a LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 27 1 projecting sign. ( 2 MR. HUBBARD: Okay. So a proj ect i ng 3 sign is not what I've seen before, where you take a 4 projector and you throw it up against the -- 6 MR. MORRISON: Oh, no. MR. HUBBARD: Is that dealt with in 18:57:58 5 7 here somewhere? 8 MS. BATEMAN: That would be the Batman 9 sign. 18:58:04 10 MR. HUBBARD: Yeah. 11 MR. MORRISON: That's something that 12 we haven't really -- that hasn't come up in all of 13 our meetings, and that's kind of interesting. I 14 don't know if that would fall under like a search 18:58:15 15 1 i ght or a bri ght 1 i ght si gn, whi ch is a prohi bi ted 16 sign in our ordinance. 17 MR. WADE: I think it would have to be 18 because of proximity to D/FW Airport. 19 MS. BATEMAN: Yeah. 18:58:28 20 MR. HUBBARD: Well, I have seen fai rl y 21 large projected-on-building signs. I haven't seen it 22 a lot, but I've seen it occasionally. So if that's 23 dealt with. 24 MS. BATEMAN: I thi nk that we woul d 18:58:41 25 put that in the category of a search 1 i ght because of LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 18:58:57 5 6 7 8 9 18:59:17 10 11 12 13 14 18:59:32 15 16 17 18 19 18:59:46 20 21 22 23 24 18:59:55 25 ( 28 the amount of light that it's projecting is pretty high. Now, that is something that the Code Enforcement Advisory Board is recommending to allow, so that's something that you will need to address in your recommendation, or we did not include that in the, in the actual draft ordinance, but your recommendation, just like their recommendation is being brought to you, you know, you will need to make your recommendation that we take on to Council on the search lights. MR. MORRISON: Search lights, okay. Just real quick, I'm going to go over prohibited types of signs. One thing I do want to point out, in the proposed ordinance we kind of put a little caveat in there that says any sign that's not defined by this ordinance is prohibited. However, we also have a section that says these civic signs are not prohibited. We did that because as we all did, we all kind of started going through as staff and trying to limit all the signs that are out there, and we realized it's almost impossible for us to come up with all the signs. There were things out there that I had never heard of, Donna had never heard of, none of us had ever heard of. LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 19:00:11 5 6 7 8 9 19:00:29 10 11 12 13 14 19:00:45 15 16 17 18 19 19:01:02 20 21 22 23 24 19:01:16 25 29 So what we tried to do is give an idea as to what was prohibited, and then as a safeguard for staff and for the City, we said any sign that's not defined in this ordinance is therefore prohibited. Bi 11 boards, pull si gns, portabl e si gns, roof si gns, vehicular signs, wind devices, which is unreal what you can find as wind devices, signs attached to fences, utility poles and trees, search light signs, which fall under the Batman sign, or any sign that flashes bright lights, signs that advertise events or businesses located outside the city limits of The Colony, so just -- oh, go ahead. MR. WADE: I've got a quick question. If somebody did want to come in and put a search light, say a grand opening or a I don't know, say a bowling alley or something, they could go through the process of getting a variance for search lights? MS. BATEMAN: No. MR. MORRISON: I would think, and I may have to look at Donna, but I would think if it's strictly prohibited in the ordinance, could they then get a variance from that? MR. DODD: But then the vari ance woul d probably imply that it's a permitted sign. To me a search light would be a grand opening, a temporary LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 19:01:29 5 6 7 8 9 19:01:42 10 11 12 13 14 19:01:55 15 16 17 18 19 19:02:09 20 21 22 23 24 19:02:18 25 30 thing. If you grant a variance, it's going to run with the property. I don't think you would want to do that. You coul d I think if you want to allow it at all I you need to establish a process for permitting. MR. WADE: Because if you -- I'm just thinking ahead five years from now if there is a piece of property that gets developed and, you know, they have this huge grand opening and MR. BARRETT: We wi 11 put the Batman sign up. MR. DODD: But they don't have access to the Bat Cave. MR. WADE: Anything on any property would be great right now. But if they did have something like that -- MR. DODD: The way it's written out is prohibited. I would not advise granting a variance in that instance because the search light is a temporary type deal. You don't want them to be able to have it when the grand opening is over. MS. BATEMAN: And then we would have to regulate it. MR. WADE: I guess places like the Main Event, like one of those arcade-type places, LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 31 1 they sometimes have the strobe lights. ( 2 MR. HUBBARD: What's a vehicle sign? 3 Is that a car for sale in a parking lot? 4 MR. MORRISON: No, that woul d be -- 19:02:38 5 let's say Pizza Inn, I don't know how many -- just 6 recently I noticed -- we noticed it yesterday on the 7 Pizza Inn headquarters on Plano Parkway, they just 8 recently parked a very nice -- I believe it's a 9 Camaro -- Cadillac. 19:02:55 10 MR. WADE: It's a '56. 11 MR. MORRISON: Ri ght, but it's got 12 their sign on it, and that's all it's doing is 13 attracting attention for them, and they are parking 14 it there overnight. What we're trying to get away 19:03:07 15 from - - I mean, that's a perfect exampl e, but what 16 we're really trying to get away from is somebody 17 parking their car in the Kroger shopping center and 18 advertising Subway, putting a sign on their car. 19 That's what we're trying to prohibit. 19:03:23 20 MR. HUBBARD: What about the driving 21 billboards? 22 MR. DODD: I think you're going to 23 have trouble regulating those. 24 MR. WADE: It's the only way I can 19:03:36 25 call Pi zza Hut to tell them that thei r guys are ( " LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 32 1 speeding up and down the streets. ( 2 MR. DODD: Well, who's to say it's a 3 sign in the city if it's just driving by? Most of 4 your vehicular signs are only regulated when they are 19:03:47 5 parked, and I thi nk the exampl e was if you have a 6 Subway in one shopping center and then the next 7 shopping center over across town you have a car 8 painted with Subway, kind of an off-premise sign is 9 what it is. 19:04:00 10 The other vehicular signs are U-Haul. I 11 don't know if y'all have a storage or rental place 12 here, but that's always a big condition when they try 13 and come into town is where they can park all their 14 vans, because that's their best advertising. Whether 19:04:17 15 it's behi nd a screeni ng wall, it gets into your 16 screening requirements. 17 MR. MORRISON: Okay. Just to give you 18 an idea of what signs would be exempt from this 19 ordinance, which would be signs not exceeding one 19:04:36 20 square feet in area. Governmental si gns we have 21 already talked about. Movement and control signs, 22 which would be something like a drive-through sign 23 pointing you to the drive-through, something like 24 that. Nati onal state fl ags, menu boards, as long as 19:04:5125 they fall under those regulations, and then signs for I I \ LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 19:05:06 5 6 7 8 9 19:05:30 10 11 12 13 14 19:05:45 15 16 17 18 19 19:05:58 20 21 22 23 24 19:06:19 25 ( \ " 33 special events. What we're proposing to do along with this ordinance is to create a special events ordinance that would kind of regulate the special events signs. That way it would all be taken care of at the permit stage. MS. MILSAK: Let me ask you a question. At one time we had an event board set up here on Main Street and off of -- I can't remember the name of the street over there. MR. HUBBARD: One of the blinking ones with an arrow? MS. MILSAK: No, it was an event thing and told that, you know, the Lions Club meets such-and-such night. Is that allowed in our city? And if so, can we investigate getting that back out there? MS. BATEMAN: I may be able to answer that. The Parks Department is currently going through steps in order to get two, I believe two electronic message board signs in two areas in town where they can advertise different events that are coming up. They were also looking at three stationary signage that does not have the revolving electronic message that they would like to put out as LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 34 ( 1 well. So the Parks Department will be addressing 2 that type of signage. Hopefully between five signs, 3 that ought to be good. 4 MS. MILSAK: Well, it was really nice, 19:06:33 5 though I to have a si gn board up that named the 6 churches, the different organizations. All of that 7 has disappeared. Is there a reason that the City has 8 taken those down? 9 MS. BATEMAN: They have not been here 19:06:54 10 in the year and a hal f I have been here, so I don't 11 know. 12 MS. MILSAK: Well, my question is, if 13 they are down, what is the procedure to put them back 14 up? 19:07:04 15 MS. BATEMAN: I thi nk the Parks 16 Department is the -- the Parks Department I believe 17 is addressing that portion, as far as advertising the 18 events. Because I'm not familiar with exactly what 19 type of signs these were or where they were located, 19:07:22 20 I woul d reall y hesi tate to say what the process woul d 21 be. 22 MS. MILSAK: Well, coming down Paige 23 Road off of 121, there was one sign board that told 24 of all the churches in the area. Another one told 19:07:4025 about all the clubs, like Lions Club and so forth, ( \ LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 35 ( 1 and it was really nice when people were coming in and 2 looking through the city to see if they wanted to buy 3 a home and settle out here. 4 MR. DODD: Sounds like one of those 19:07:53 5 typi call y on a ci ty 1 i mi t si gn or chamber of commerce 6 sign or something. Is that what you're talking 7 about? 8 MS. MILSAK: Well, yeah, but it wasn't 9 through the chamber, I don't believe. 19:08:02 10 MR. DODD: Or sponsored by one of 11 those. 12 MS. MILSAK: Yeah. But is there a 13 problem with that being done? 14 MS. BATEMAN: It would be an 19:08:1915 off-premise sign, because it would be advertising 16 busi nesses, products, goods, servi ces located at a 17 location that's not where the sign is located. And 18 we prohibit off-premise signs. 19 MS. MORRISON: It didn't really -- the 19:08:35 20 si gn that Marl ene is tal ki ng about di dn' t reall y 21 advertise services. It advertises mainly community 22 organizations, Lions Club, Masonic Lodge, any of the 23 organizations, Lions Club and the Jaycees, and it 24 talked about a lot of different community 19:08:5625 organizations that service the community, not things ( LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 (" 2 3 4 19:09:12 5 6 7 8 9 19:09:26 10 11 12 13 14 19:09:45 15 16 17 18 19 19:10:03 20 21 22 23 24 19:10:22 25 \ 36 for sale. It gave -- and it was right down there where Hawaiian Falls was. It had a listing of the different churches, the Baptist church, Methodist church. All the churches that were in the community, it gave worship times and it gave an address. So if somebody was coming into the community and looking for a particular church and they didn't happen to see it, because like maybe the Catholic church over there is not within Main Street and it's a little hard to find, it gave the address and gave worship times, so you could go and worship without trying to locate a phone number. For the lodge, it gave worship or meeting times, the Lions Club, the meeting time, the Jaycees, a meeting time, and it was really more community-service-oriented than it would be like an off-premise for-sale sign. MS. BATEMAN: Again, I'd have to refer back to the Parks Department signs, because as you just described it, that is an off-premise sign because it directs you somewhere the sign is not, and so it becomes on off-premise sign. And that was kind of the issue we got into when we met with the Parks director and was trying to find out a way that we could advertise different LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 19:10:35 5 6 7 8 9 19:10:55 10 11 12 13 14 19:11:12 15 16 17 18 19 19:11:29 20 21 22 23 24 19:11:45 25 ( 37 community events and different things that are going on throughout the community without it having to, you know, fit into one of these categories. And so that's why it's being handled separately through a policy for governmental signs versus being in the sign ordinance. So we will pass that on to her that you're wanting something or to look into something like that. MS. MORRISON: Well, myself, I like it when you drive into a city and you go, oh, look, there is a Cathol i c church here or, oh, look, there is a, you know, Jaycees organization that meets here. It kind of gives it that home feeling. Frisco has got one. It just lets you know that when you're driving in a community that you're not familiar with that they have these things for you too. MR. WADE: Go ahead. MR. MORRISON: My presentation is done. I'm open to any questions that the Commission may have. MR. WADE: I've got a question real quick. The first one or the first chart that you put up there, the single-tenant monument signs going from 10 feet by 100 feet to -- or I'm sorry, current height in area 10 feet, 100 feet, is 10 feet, 80 feet LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 38 ( 1 wide, why the reduction in 20 square feet on a 2 single-tenant monument sign, and also an increase on 3 the multi-tenant monument sign of 10 feet? What was 4 the reasoning behind it? Just curious. 19:12:12 5 MR. MORRISON: And I'm t ryi ng to go 6 back. I don't remember off the top of my head. And 7 that's not a good answer. 9 MR. HUBBARD: Can I say something? MR. MORRISON: Yes. 8 19:12:26 10 MR. HUBBARD: When I'm driving around, 11 those multi-tenant signs, I don't have to -- because 12 I use them a lot, and I don't have to look through 13 the shopping center, I just look at that 14 multi-tenant, so increasing size to me is a good 19:12:39 15 idea. 16 MR. WADE: Right, okay. And I guess 17 it's the -- I guess it's the height that is increased 18 on the multi-tenant. Would that have anything to do 19 with 121 being now elevated and being able to see it 19:12:52 20 more at eye 1 evel maybe? 21 MS. BATEMAN: I can address that on 22 the multi-tenant. That was we did take 121 i n t 0 23 account, and one of the comments that the City 24 Council provided us was that they wanted us to 19:13:06 25 address it somehow. LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 -,- ( 2 3 4 19:13:22 5 6 7 8 9 19:13:39 10 11 12 13 14 19:13:52 15 16 17 18 19 19:14:15 20 21 22 23 24 19:14:27 25 39 So on the method of measurement for the height we said from the ground where the sign would be located from the service lanes for 121 or the main traffic lanes, whichever is higher, so that they could take that into -- that method of measurement into account, one of those two. MR. WADE: Okay. That's all I had. Any other questions? MS. HAMES: Well, on menu board, ours sai d 8 by 50, and 7 by 35 is correct, I presume, since you're showing it. On our sheets it says 8 by 50. MR. MORRISON: Okay. Very good question. That was a topic of discussion at the Code Enforcement Advisory Board. When we originally did this ordinance, we did 7 feet by 35 feet, 7 feet in height, 35 square feet. We since then did a kind of general evaluation of the entire city and all -- tried to encompass all menu boards, and we found that that's kind of a low number. Most of them were around 8 feet. Most of them were around 40 to 45 square feet in area. We presented that information to the Code Enforcement Advisory Board, and we asked for their kind of recommendation, so I apologize if somehow I LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 19:14:46 5 6 7 8 9 19:15:00 10 11 12 13 14 19:15:18 15 16 17 18 19 19:15:38 20 21 22 23 24 19:15:50 25 40 misled in the report. Right now I think the ordinance should be written at 8 -- 7 feet and 35 square feet. We are as staff looking at from you as direction as to if you want to increase that or if you want to decrease that. MS. HAMES: And what was the size and height for political signs? On the next -- there we go. MR. MORRISON: Yeah, the current regulations are 6 feet in square feet and 3 feet in height. And state law requires that they be 36 square feet in area and 8 feet in height. MS. HAMES: Thank you. MR. BARRETT: On the political signs, if they are not picked up within -- if they are not removed within the ten-day period and then the City has to pick them up, is the candidate, whoever is on them, are they billed for that by the City? MR. WADE: Yes, twice. MR. BARRETT: Or do we know? MR. MORRISON: What we have done i n this, we have kind of built in a provision that if staff has to go out and collect signs, whether it be a temporary sign or sign that was put up without a permit or that's in violation of this ordinance, then LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 19:16:05 5 6 7 8 9 19:16:14 10 11 12 13 14 19:16:22 15 16 17 18 19 19:16:35 20 21 22 23 24 19:16:50 25 41 we have built in a fee that then the owner of that sign, if we can determine who that is, is billed for that fee. I believe it's in our fee ordinance to be $35 a sign, something like that. MR. DODD: Is that for political and advertising signs? MR. MORRISON: It just covers any si gn that we pick up. MR. DODD: Because usually they have to pay it to come back and get it? MR. MORRISON: Right. MR. DODD: That's usually the way it works. If the sign is picked up, then they have to pay a fee to get the sign back. MR. BARRETT: But they might not be coming back for them. MR. DODD: But a busi ness has an interest in getting the sign back. You can't really distinguish political and everything else, because you're kind of getting into First Amendment issues and free speech, something like that. MR. BARRETT: So I can leave my I Like Ike sign in my front yard? MS. HAMES: Wes, on the vehicular sign, not to beat a dead horse here, does that LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 19:17:03 5 6 7 8 9 19:17:20 10 11 12 13 14 19:17:34 15 16 17 18 19 19:17:54 20 21 22 23 24 19:18:09 25 42 include the magnetic ads that can just be popped on a car or the toppers that the delivery boys put on their vehicles to go around town? MR. MORRISON: No, just because what that's prohibiting is that's prohibiting someone from, as David said earlier, let's say if I go and park my car in the Kroger parking lot and I put a banner on it that says Wal-Mart, that's prohibiting -- that's directing somebody down the street to go to Wal-Mart. And a perfect example, in the previous city I was in, we had an issue with two business owners, and they were two restaurants, and they were the only two restaurants in the city, and one of the restaurant owners parked their car with a big sign in the back of it in front of the other restaurant advertising their restaurant. So we're trying to get out of that. MR. DODD: The vehicular signs, we're not regulating moving vehicle signs. It doesn't we're not really regulating, you know, if it's obvious that they are using it for deliveries and they are parking it in the parking lot, that's one thing. If it's been in that same parking place for thirty days, that's a sign on a vehicle. That's what LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 43 1 we mean. ( 2 MR. WADE: Any other questions? Since 3 this is a public hearing, we will open it up to the 4 public. Anyone wishing to speak in favor or in 19:18:30 5 opposi t i on of thi s i tern may come forward and speak. 6 Packing them in tonight. Waiting for the cricket 7 noises. 8 Since no one is coming forward, we will 9 close the public hearing and discuss it amongst 19:18:53 10 oursel ves as to whether we want to make a moti on in 11 favor or denial of this item. 12 MS. HAMES: Did we want to include 13 something or make a change about the search lights 14 before we do anything with this? 19:19:06 15 MR. WADE: I guess we could say with 16 the recommendation that staff would look a little 17 more into it, I guess. Woul d that be ri ght? 18 MS. BATEMAN: When you say look a 19 little bit more into it, what would that mean? 21 MR. WADE: Somebody help me. MS. BATEMAN: Are you wanting to allow 19:19:25 20 22 them? And if so, we can come up with some 23 regulations for you. 24 MR. WADE: Right. I think it would be 19:19:36 25 a good idea if we came up wi th somethi ng that woul d LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 44 1 allow them to be temporary. ( 2 MS. BATEMAN: Okay. Would you want to 3 allow them weekly, monthly, once a year, twice a 4 year, daily? 6 MR. BARRETT: Once a year. MR. DODD: And how many in the same 19:19:51 5 7 shopping center? What if Kroger and Best Buy are in 8 the same shopping center? 9 MR. BARRETT: Somebody is going to 19:20:02 10 have to move out. 11 MS. BATEMAN: Do you want us to just 12 look at what other cities do and bring it back to 13 you? 14 MR. BARRETT: Yes. 19:20:13 15 MR. DODD: I don't think he wants them 16 anymore. 17 MS. BATEMAN: Okay. All right. MR. WADE: We have to go back over 18 19 this all again if that's the case? 19:20:23 20 MS. BATEMAN: Well, you can. We will 21 bring it all back, and we will just discuss search 22 1 i ghts, if you want to do that. Do you want to 23 allow -- one of the comments that was made at the 24 Code Enforcement Advisory Board meeting is they 19:20:38 25 wanted to allow search 1 i ghts and wi nd devi ces at the LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 45 1 same time and maybe like inflatable devices, such ( 2 as-- 4 MR. WADE: The gorilla? MS. BATEMAN: Like the giant gorilla. 3 19:20:51 5 I mean, all three of those at one time on a piece of 6 property, is that what you want? We can write the 7 regulations however you like. 8 MS. MORRISON: I would say it's 9 handled as when we have the concert there where 11 MS. BATEMAN: As a special event. MS. MORRISON: So you coul d i ncl ude 19:21:06 10 12 those lights in the special event? 13 MR. DODD: Could you make a special 14 event be a grand opening? 19:21:18 15 MS. BATEMAN: The speci al event coul d 16 be handled as a separate ordinance. 17 MR. HUBBARD: How about we just say 18 we'll let it go with special events? 19 MR. DODD: Are you thinking any other 19:21:25 20 time other than grand openi ng? 21 MR. WADE: Other than grand openings, 22 I can't see -- you know, no blow-out sales. 23 MS. BATEMAN: Great shoe sale? 24 MR. WADE: Hmm. 19:21:43 25 MS. HAMES: Is the speci al event LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 46 1 discussion just for city events or open to anything? ( 2 MS. BATEMAN: It wi 11 be open to 3 anything that is an annual community event. 4 MS. HAMES: So what we're talking 19:22:00 5 about reall y doesn't fall under that. 6 MS. BATEMAN: Ri ght. Our annual 7 community events are going to be -- help me. 9 MR. MORRISON: 4th of July. MR. WADE: Easter egg hunts, Christmas 8 19:22:14 10 break. 11 MS. MILSAK: Do any of these 12 ordinances that we're talking about apply to what's 13 going on up here? Hidden 16 MR. WADE: Hidden Cove? MS. MILSAK: Hidden Cove. MR. WADE: I would assume that they 14 19:22:28 15 17 would fall within that category, since they are 18 within the city limits. 19 MS. BATEMAN: Would they have to 19:22:42 20 compl y wi th the si gn ordi nance? 21 MS. MILSAK: Well, I woul d thi nk that 22 they would have to, but we're talking about those big 23 spotlights, and I don't think that would be something 24 that they would be happy with. 19:22:54 25 MR. HUBBARD: I don't think we have LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 47 /' { 1 ever had any spotlights, and I don't think we really 2 missed out on anything. That's my thought. 3 MR. WADE: Okay. Then we just drop 4 the spotlights? 6 MR. DODD: They are not in there now. MR. BARRETT: Except for the Batman in 19:23:07 5 7 Frisco. 8 MR. WADE: That's right. I'm taking 9 mine out tonight. I'm advertising. Okay. 11 MR. DODD: St ill have bat phones. MR. WADE: All right. Anyone wishing 19:23:19 10 12 to make a motion on this item? No? 13 MR. HUBBARD: I'll make a mot i on to 14 approve as submitted in our packet. 19:23:48 15 MS. MILSAK: Second. 16 MR. WADE : All those in favor, say 17 aye. Aye. 24 MS. HAMES: Aye. MS. MORRISON: Aye. MS. BATEMAN: Aye. MR. BARRETT: Aye. MS. MILSAK: Aye. MR. HUBBARD: Aye. MR. WADE: Those opposed? Motion 18 19 20 21 22 23 19:23:57 25 carries. Item 4.0, director's report. LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 ( 2 3 4 19:24:12 5 6 7 8 9 19:24:28 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 48 MS. BATEMAN: I was just going to say, let me get some clarification. I just wanted to make sure that the search lights are out. MR. BARRETT: No search lights. MS. BATEMAN: As was submitted by staff. MR. WADE: Item 4.0, director's report. Donna? MS. BATEMAN: I have nothing. MR. WADE: If no one else has anything to discuss, this meeting is adjourned. (End of proceedings.) LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658 1 /" \ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 49 STATE OF TEXAS ) This is to certify that I, Carla J. Shanks, Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas, reported in shorthand the meeting given at the time and place set forth in the caption hereof, and that the above and foregoing pages contain a full, true and correct transcript of said meeting. Witness my hand this 21st day of March , 2007. ~j.s~ Carla J. Shanks, CSR NO. 5054 LONE STAR REPORTING 723 Woodlake Drive Coppell, Texas 75019 972.402.9885 Certification expires: 12-31-08 LONE STAR REPORTING (972) 402-9885 * (888) 678-4658