HomeMy WebLinkAbout08/18/2015 City Council August 18,2015
MINUTES OF COUNCIL REGULAR SESSION
HELD ON
AUGUST 18,2015
The Regular Session of the City Council of the City of The Colony, Texas, was called
to order at 6:30 p.m. on the 18th day of August, 2015 at City Hall, 6800 Main Street,
The Colony, Texas,with the following roll call:
Joe McCourry Mayor Present
Kirk Mikulec Councilmember Present
Richard Boyer Councilmember Present
Brian R. Wade Councilmember Present
David Terre Mayor Pro-Tem Present
Perry Schrag Councilmember Present
Joel Marks Councilmember Present
And with seven council members present a quorum was established and the following
items were addressed:
1.0 ROUTINE ANNOUNCEMENTS, RECOGNITIONS AND
PROCLAMATIONS:
Call to Order—at 6:30 p.m.
Invocation—Trinity Presbyterian Church
Pledge of Allegiance to the United States Flag
Salute to the Texas Flag
Receive Police Explorers for State Competition (Coulon)
Lt. Charles Wood, Police Department, acknowledged the members of The Colony's
Police Explorers Post and recognized their awards received during the 2015 Annual
State Police Explorer Competition. Mayor McCourry presented a proclamation to
the Explorers.
Recognize Finance Department for receipt of GFOA awards for financial
reporting and budget presentation. Also, the Texas Comptroller Platinum
award for transparency. (Cranford)
Mayor McCourry recognized the Finance Department for receiving the
Distinguished Budget Presentation award, the Certificate of Achievement for
Excellence in Financial Reporting, and the Texas Comptroller Leadership Circle
Platinum Member award.
Items of Community Interest:
Receive presentation from Parks and Recreation regarding upcoming events
and activities
Lindsay Stanzell, Special Events Coordinator, provided current and upcoming
events and activities to Council.
Councilmember Marks acknowledged the passing of Lou Gomez, former City
Councilmember for Place 5.
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August 18,2015
2.0 WORK SESSION- The Work Session is for the purpose of exchanging information regarding
public business or policy. No action is taken on Work Session items. Citizen input will not be
heard during this portion of the agenda.
2.1 Discuss possible future pedestrian sidewalks in the area of BB Owen
Elementary (McCourry)
Parks and Recreation Director Pam Nelson advised Council on the possible future
pedestrian sidewalks in the area of BB Owen Elementary. She elaborated on the
safety of children walking to school. Pam provided a proposal of a trail connections
to Vaden Street for access to the school; a bridge to connect to the channel, along
with a future trail to N. Colony. The proposed sidewalk additions were discussed
during a Community Development Corporation (CDC) board meeting. Some
funding has been set aside for the sidewalks.
Mayor McCourry advised staff to meet with the CDC board for more discussion
and update Council regarding sidewalks at a later date.
2.2 Discuss and provide direction to staff regarding potential widening of
sidewalks and trails in Austin Ranch to provide trail connectivity per the
City's Trail Master Plan with proposed funding provided by the CDC and
park dedication fees (PARD,Nelson)
Parks Director Pam Nelson reviewed the current and planned sidewalks and trails
for the developing area of Austin Ranch at Plano Parkway and Windhaven. She
provided a site plan with the trail and sidewalk plans. The developer has awarded a
bid for the installation of trails however ideally the width should be wider. Pam
provided a cost estimate for widening the sidewalks and trails above the amount
that the developer (Billingsley Corporation) will be dedicating to the project. She
stated there is some funding available in the Austin Ranch Park Dedication fund
and the CDC is considering funding the remainder. She requested direction from
council on the matter so that the extra width could be added during initial
construction.
Mayor McCourry advised staff to continue discussion with CDC and to move
forward with the proposal.
2.3 Discuss and review a new site plan for American Heroes festival in November
(PARD, Swain)
Parks and Recreation Manager David Swain presented a new site plan for the
upcoming 2015 American Heroes Festival planned for November 7, 2015 to
Council.
Council discussed traffic issues during the festival. Staff was advised to continue to
provide street closure on Blair Oaks during the car show and to add additional
public safety officers to assist with traffic.
3.0 CITIZEN INPUT- This portion of the meeting is to allow up to five (5) minutes per speaker
with a maximum of thirty (30) minutes for items not posted on the current agenda. The council
may not discuss these items,but may respond with factual data or policy information, or place the
item on a future agenda. Those wishing to speak shall submit a Request Form to the City
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August 18,2015
Secretary.
Mayor McCourry acknowledged two citizen input cards submitted with concerns
regarding the traffic on 423 and at Cougar Alley. Brant Shallenburger, Director of
Government Relations, provided an update on the information provided to schools
regarding construction areas related to student transportation routes for the start of
school on August 24, 2015. A press release regarding the opening and bus routes
for students went out along with skylerts to schools and the Home Owners
Association in the areas. Brant advised that a public safety officer will be onsite to
assist with directing traffic and that there would be no student crossing at Cougar
Alley and Main St. during construction. In addition, the bus routes will be in place
until the completion of construction on Main Street scheduled for September 2017.
Another citizen, Ann DePrater who did not wish to speak, submitted a request for
the speed limit on South Colony Boulevard to be increased to 40 mph.
Councilmember Schrag requested a future agenda item discussion regarding no
cell phones in construction zones.
4.0 CONSENT AGENDA- The Consent Agenda contains items which are routine in nature and
will be acted upon in one motion. Items may be removed from this agenda for separate discussion
by a Council member.
4.1. Consider approving City Council meeting minutes for July 21, 2015 (Boyer
vacation) (City Secretary,Wilson)
4.2 Consider approving a resolution ordering the November 2015 Election for at-
large city council members, specifically the Mayor, Place 1 and Place 2
(Council)
4.3. Consider approving a resolution casting the city's vote for nominee David
Terre to serve as a member of the Board of Managers for the Denco Area 9-1-1
District(Council)
4.4. Consider approving a resolution authorizing the city manager to sign an
Interlocal Cooperation Agreement with Denton County Assessor/Collector for
the billing and collection of 2014-15 and 2015-16 Public Improvement District
Number 1 assessments (Finance, Cranford)
Motion to approve the above consent agenda items-Marks;second by Wade;motion
passed with all ayes.
5.0 REGULAR AGENDA ITEMS
5.1. Continue a public hearing from June 16, July 7, and August 3, 2015, discuss
and consider an ordinance approving a request for a Specific Use Permit
(SUP) to allow an electrical substation facility known as the Josey Electrical
Substation on 10.445-acres of land located near the northwest corner of Plano
Parkway and Windhaven Parkway, approximately 100 feet North of
Windhaven Parkway in Planned Development 10 (PD-10) zoning district
(Development Services,Joyce)
Mayor McCourry read 5.1 and then asked city attorney Jeff Moore if it is acceptable
to address both 5.1 and 5.2 collectively. Mr. Moore replied that had been done
previously and is acceptable. Mayor McCourry then read item 5.2. Mike Joyce
made a presentation to council for both 5.1 and 5.2.
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August 18,2015
Mayor McCourry opened the public hearing for items 5.1 and 5.2 at 7:30 p.m. and
allowed for public comment. [See Exhibit A page 8 for transcript of public
comments.]
The public hearing was closed at 8:43 p.m. [See Exhibit A page 75.] At this time a --
closed executive session on items 5.1 ad 5.2 was requested by Councilmember
Marks. Open session reconvened at 9:40 p.m. [See Exhibit A page 76.]
At this time Councilmember Terre requested to make a motion however made some
preliminary remarks to clarify the rational for his motion. [Councilmember Terre's
remarks begin on page 76 of Exhibit A.]
Councilmember Terre then made the following motion- [Exhibit A page 91.]
Based upon the evidence presented, or lack thereof and in light of my comments,
observations and statements that I have just made,I move to deny this Item 5.1 on
the agenda, the Specific Use Permit application submitted by Brazos Electric for
an electric substation at the northwest corner of Plano Parkway and Windhaven
Parkway.
The motion was seconded by Council Mikulec. Motion passed with all ayes.
5.2. Continue a public hearing from June 16, July 7, and August 3, 2015, discuss
and consider an ordinance approving a request for a Specific Use Permit (SUP)
to allow a monopole antenna to be located at the Josey Electrical Substation on
10.445-acres of land located near the northwest corner of Plano Parkway and
Windhaven Parkway, approximately 100 feet North of Windhaven Parkway in
Planned Development 10 (PD-10) zoning district(Development Services,Joyce)
Motion to deny-Marks;second by Wade;motion passed with all ayes.
5.3. Receive and discuss presentation from Farr Group and provide direction to
staff(IT, Shallenburger)
Brant Shallenburger briefly reviewed this item and introduced the committee
members who reviewed the RFP's for IT services. Farr Group, who coordinated the
process, prepared a recommendation to council for a solution based on feedback
from the committee. Greg Gosnell with Farr Group provided an overview of the
process and the recommendations. The consultant recommended a "blended"
approach for a solution that includes hiring an IT Director, which Farr Group will
assist with, and a recommendation for transition to be complete in approximately 4
months. City Manager Troy Powell explained to the council that the expense for a
new IT Director is included in the budget.
5.4. Conduct a public hearing, discuss and consider approving an ordinance
authorizing a Specific Use Permit (SUP) to allow the use of alternate exterior
material for the Colony Center, a retail center located at the Northwest Corner
of SH 121 and South Colony Boulevard within the PD-16 zoning district
(Development Services,Joyce)
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August 18,2015
Mike Joyce reviewed the proposed building materials for this project as being tilt-up
concrete construction and EIFS. A reduced percentage (from our requirements) of
masonry is proposed. The public hearing was opened at 10:30 p.m. Councilmember
Mikulec told the developer that he wants at least the minimum amount of masonry
on the building. The developer stated the amount will be increased to meet the
city's standards. Jeff Frenkel (with Rooms to Go) spoke saying that it would be
beneficial to add the additional masonry to rear of the building. The public hearing
was closed at 10:40 p.m.
Motion to approve the SUP with the revision that they provide 25% masonry on the
building- Terre;second by Mikulec;motion passed with all ayes.
5.5 Discuss and consider an ordinance approving a request for a Development Plan
for Colony Center Addition to allow a retail center located at the Northwest
Corner of SH 121 and South Colony Boulevard within the PD-16 zoning
district(Development Services,Joyce)
Mike Joyce reviewed the development plan for Floor & Decor and Mattress Firm.
He advised that parking and landscape regulations have been met. Planning and
Zoning Commission recommended approval.
Motion to approve—Schrag;second by Marks; motion passed with all ayes.
5.6 Discuss and consider an ordinance approving a site plan to allow for Service
King, an automobile body shop, located on Memorial Drive, west of Budget
Suites, north of existing Firestone, zoned Business Park (BP) (Development
Services)
Mike Joyce stated this project is located in the Victory at 121 Development. He
reminded the council that the Specific Use Permit for an automobile body shop had
been previously approved by the council for this 2.45 acre lot. He explained there is
a proposed 6' masonry wall around the perimeter. Planning and Zoning
recommended approval.
Motion to approve-Boyer;second by Mikulec; motion passed with all ayes.
5.7 Discuss and consider an ordinance approving a site plan for Modern Round, an
indoor entertainment facility, which will house a restaurant and an indoor
virtual shooting gallery, located between Memorial Drive and SH 121, west of
Firestone, east of Top Golf located in the Business Park (BP) zoning district
(Development Services,Joyce)
Mike Joyce stated this facility is planned for a 2.465 acre lot in an area zoned
business park. He reviewed the parking, landscaping, and proposed site plan.
Planning and Zoning recommended approval. The applicant explained this is first
restaurant of this type in the area and that it should be open next summer.
Motion to approve-Schrag;second by Mikulec;motion passed with all ayes.
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August 18,2015
5.8. Conduct a public hearing, discuss and consider approving an ordinance
amending the Code of Ordinances, Appendix A, Section 10B-1100, entitled
"Standards for Swimming Pools and Hot Tubs," by adding a new subsection
(i) to address the demolition of swimming pools and hot tubs (Development
Services,Joyce) —
Joe Perez told the council that currently there are no requirements for in-ground
swimming pool removal. Adoption of this ordinance will require a permit for
demolition and filling. City engineer Gordon Scruggs discussed the general
requirements for filling in the pool area. Mayor McCourry stated there needs to be
specific requirements in the ordinance and that it does not need to be left to the
discretion of the inspector. Councilmember Wade inquired as to whether the
concrete had to be removed and Joe said that only the upper portion would have
required removal. The public hearing was opened and closed at 11:10 p.m. with no
one wishing to speak. Staff was asked to revise the ordinance and include specific
requirements for soil compaction, etc. There was no action taken on this item.
5.9. Conduct a public hearing and discuss City of The Colony Municipal Budget
and fee schedule for fiscal year 2015-2016, and vote to set the date of
September 15,2015 to adopt the municipal budget(Finance)
Assistant City Manager Tim Miller told the council there are no changes from the
previous budget presentation. Citizen Belinda Ramsey addressed the council. She
had previously submitted a grant application which was not approved in its entirety.
She requested reconsideration of the Mothers Opposing Bullying grant request.
Councilmember Mikulec added that he had done more research on this organization
and would be in favor of providing in-kind services as well as an amount more than
$2,500 (amount he previously suggested). The public hearing was opened and
closed at 11:22 p.m. with no one wishing to speak.
Motion to approve [the budget adoption date of September 15, 2015]- Terre; second by
Wade; motion passed with all ayes.
5.10. Conduct the first of two public hearings and discuss the proposed 2015-2016
tax rate not to exceed $.67 cents per $100 valuation for the taxable value of all
property, real and personal, located within the City of The Colony, and
announce that the tax rate will be voted on September 15, 2015 at 6:30 p.m. at
The Colony City Hall, 6800 Main Street (Finance)
The public hearing on the tax rate was opened and closed at 11:29 p.m. with no one
wishing to speak.
5.11. Discuss and consider approving a resolution accepting a preliminary service
and assessment plan for the City of The Colony Public Improvement District
No. 1, including a determination of cost, a service plan, an assessment plan,
and an assessment roll; ordering a public hearing for Tuesday, September 1,
2015, to consider an ordinance levying special assessments against properties
within the City of The Colony Public Improvement District No. 1, that are --
specially benefited by the public improvements and supplemental services
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August 18,2015
being provided; and authorizing and directing the publication and mailing of
notices for said public hearing (City Attorney)
City attorney Jeff Moore explained to the council that the proposed 2015-16 tax
assessment only applies to the Nebraska Furniture Mart/Grandscape site. Adoption
of this resolution orders a public hearing on the plan for September 1, 2015, orders
notices be mailed to the property owners, and orders that notice of the public
hearing be published.
Motion to approve-Schrag;second by Marks; motion passed with all ayes.
Executive Session was convened at 11:31 p.m.
6.0 EXECUTIVE SESSION
6.1 A. Council shall convene into a closed executive session pursuant to Section
551.074 of the TEXAS GOVERNMENT CODE to deliberate the appointment,
employment, evaluation, reassignment, duties, discipline, or dismissal of the
City Manager.
B. Council shall convene into a closed executive session pursuant to Section
551.087 of the TEXAS GOVERNMENT CODE to deliberate regarding
commercial or financial information the city has received from business
prospect(s), and to deliberate the offer of a financial or other incentive to a
business prospect(s).
Reconvened to Open Session on the 19th day of August, 2015, at 12:00 a.m.
C. Any action as a result of executive session.
Item A.
-Not addressed.
Item B.
-No action
And with no further business to discuss the meeting was adjourned at 12:01 a.m. on August
19, 2015.
APPROVED:
J,e McCou , Mayor
ity of Th- olony
ATTE ",A �E'THF
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AA:diAlL I.
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Christie Wilson, TRMC c
City Secretary ...
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8 TRANSCRIPT OF VIDEO RECORDING
9 THE CITY OF THE COLONY
10 AUGUST 18 , 2015 CITY COUNCIL PUBLIC HEARING
11 AGENDA ITEMS 5 . 1 AND 5 . 2
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1 MAYOR MCCOURRY: That moves us to the
2 regular agenda items . --
3 5 . 1 . This is a continuation of public
4 hearing from June the 16th and July the 7th of 2015 and
5 August the 3rd , discuss and consider an ordinance
6 approving a request for a Specific use Permit (an SUP)
7 to allow an electrical substation facility known as the
8 Josey Electrical substation on 10 . 445 acres of land
9 located near the northwest corner of Plano Parkway and
10 windhaven Parkway , approximately 100 feet north of
11 windhaven Parkway in the Planned Development 10 (PD
12 Number 10) zoning district .
13 Mr . Joyce , just one minute .
14 Jeff, probably for ease , because both 5 . 1 -
15 and 5 . 2 are -- concern the same piece of property and
16 they are an SUP , can we read the second one also into
17 the minutes and discuss them both at the same time
18 and --
19 MR. MOORE : I think we did originally ,
20 yeah . So that ' s fine .
21 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Okay. 5 . 2 . Continue a
22 public hearing from June of -- June the 16th , July the
23 7th and August the 3rd of 2015 , discuss and consider an
24 ordinance approving a request for a Specific Use Permit
25 (SUP) to allow a monopole antenna to be located at the
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1 Josey Electrical substation facility on 10 . 445 acres of
2 land located near the northwest corner of Plano Parkway
3 and windhaven Parkway, approximately 100 feet north of
4 windhaven Parkway in Planned Development Number 10
5 zoning district .
6 Now, Mr . Joyce , go ahead .
7 MR. JOYCE : Thank you , Mike -- Mayor .
8 Mike Joyce , planning development .
9 This is the location of the property for
10 both of these SUPS , which is zoned PD-10 , which is near
11 the intersection of windhaven Parkway and Plano Parkway .
12 You can see in the surrounding areas basically Planned
13 Development 22 , which is Austin Ranch . PD-10 was
14 originally part of Austin Ranch also and to the north is
15 PD-10 .
16 This is a continuation of hearings that
17 were held on June the 16th , July the 7th and August 3rd
18 of this year . As the mayor did mention , this is a
19 10 . 445-acre piece of property at the northwest corner of
20 Plano and windhaven Parkway. It is currently
21 undeveloped and the electrical substation is designed to
22 be an unmanned facility. That ' s why they ' re wanting the
23 monopole to be placed on the property as well , to be
24 able to have commands go to it via -- via the airwaves .
25 The substation is to be covered in gravel
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1 with no paved parking , and proposed access is from a
2 driveway on Plano Parkway , and a five-foot concrete
3 sidewalk is proposed to be provided along Plano Parkway .
4 we ' ve gone through these previously, but
5 I ' ll go through a few of these that will describe why
6 we ' re looking at the SUP .
7 Is it in conformance with The Colony ' s
8 comprehensive plan? It is located within the Austin
9 Ranch mixed use development area . The substation is a
10 needed public utility , will serve the area, although it
11 is not compatible with the Austin Ranch mixed use
12 development designation of the comprehensive plan .
13 Conformance with applicable regulations .
14 with the approval of the SUP , the application can be in
15 conformance with the zoning ordinance .
16 Compatibility with the existing or
17 permitted uses on abutting sites in terms of height ,
18 scale , open space , landscaping , site development , et
19 cetera . It ' s basically un -- most of this area is
20 undeveloped , although it is beginning to develop quite
21 rapidly in this area . In the future , commercial/retail
22 and multifamily development proposed in the area of
23 PD-1O and PD-22 . And we also provide landscaping that
24 helps visual -- visually screen some of the development
25 and outside of the development as well . So some of
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1 these adverse effects could be -- the substation could
2 be mitigated with landscaping .
3 safety and convenience . The facility ' s
4 unmanned and -- and automated , so there ' s not going to
5 be much traffic that will be generated , or pedestrian
6 traffic , by this development .
7 Protection of property and for flood
8 erosion , et cetera , will be constructed in accordance
9 with applicable adopted regulations at the time of
10 construction .
11 No signage is being proposed .
12 And adequacy and convenience of off-street
13 parking , again there would be no parking on this ,
14 provided there would be just one space they would be
15 able to park on a gravel parking lot that would be part
16 of the facility.
17 Determination that the proposed use and
18 site development , together with any modifications , will
19 be compatible with existing and permitted uses of the
20 area . And as I said -- mentioned earlier , this is
21 mainly undeveloped property , but it is rapidly beginning
22 to develop in this area and it would be with commercial
23 and retail developments that are being proposed . And
24 with the amount of growth in this area , Cosery has
25 indicated to the staff that their existing facilities
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1 will not have sufficient capacity to be able to serve
2 their -- their constituents . And so we looked at this
3 and said that the substation will also provide increased
4 reliability to the area , in the Hebron area .
5 The Texas courts have , though , concluded
6 that a public utility provider with the power of eminent
7 domain has a degree of control in deciding whether --
8 whether they can -- where they can locate their
9 facilities . However , this is not absolute. A city can ,
10 with their ordinance standards , basically have some
11 control over this . And the planned development also
12 requires landscaping to be a visual screening along
13 windhaven and Plano Parkways .
14 In conclusion , the substation is not
15 compatible with the surrounding land uses , but is a
16 needed public utility.
17 And these are the last two , is that --
18 again talking about trying to take away unfavorable
19 impacts . Again landscaping is basically the best way
20 that you can try to do -- to get away from the
21 unpleasant views that this type of facility will
22 provide .
23 Again , the use should not be detrimental
24 to the health , safety and welfare of the public ,
25 although it -- you know, it ' s going to be a very
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1 unmanned facility . It ' s just the aesthetics are what
2 we ' re really looking at here .
3 This is a site plan of how the power plant
4 would be located . This would be windhaven Parkway in
5 this area, Plano Parkway is in this area , with the
6 substation on the property here . There ' s a small sliver
7 of land that is left in this area . And it also should
8 be noted that they are -- there are some -- some pretty
9 substantial drainage problems that are created with the
10 development at the back of this property , that I know
11 that our city engineers have looked at quite
12 extensively .
13 The review -- Development Review Committee
14 finds that the SUP is needed for a public utility , with
15 the power of eminent domain , and meets the applicable
16 requirements of the zoning ordinance that I
17 aforementioned in the criteria . And , therefore , the DRC
18 recommended approval . The Planning & zoning Commission
19 recommended approval of the SUP for the substation and
20 for the antenna , both on a four to two vote .
21 And I ' ll be happy to answer any questions
22 y ' all may have , which I ' m sure there will be quite a
23 few.
24 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Council , questions?
25 MR. MARKS : Is -- are the folks from
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1 Brazos here today?
2 MAYOR MCCOURRY: They are . Would the
3 folks from Brazos like to make a presentation?
4 The public hearing is --
5 MR. MOORE : Correct .
6 MAYOR MCCOURRY: I can open the public
7 hearing . Let me open the public hearing and this is a
8 time that anyone can speak for or against this item .
9 Just needs to step to the microphone and state their
10 name and address for the record .
11 MS . WILLIAMSON : Hi . My name is Sarah
12 Williamson , with Kimley Horn & Associates . I am here
13 representing Brazos Electric . I address at 12750 Merit
14 Drive , Suite 1000 , Dallas , Texas 75251 .
15 we ' re here to answer any questions that
16 you may have . Brazos and Cosery also have
17 representatives here tonight .
18 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Okay . Thank you .
19 Questions from Council ? Comments? Mr .
20 Marks?
21 MR. MARKS : I have a question of somebody
22 from Brazos . And stop me if I ' m out of line because
23 I ' ve never asked these kind of questions before .
24 But I ' m just curious on the -- when you
25 guys decided to do the eminent domain , were you
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1 considering the location and whether or not it was
2 something that was acceptable to the residents and to
3 the City?
4 MR . CARPENTER: My name is David
5 Carpenter . I ' m a lawyer representing Brazos Electric .
6 My address is 28015 West Highway 84 , Waco , Texas .
7 when the -- the site selection is done
8 really as an engineering study . So numbers of
9 considerations go into that . You know , as you say , it ' s
10 a rapidly developing area and , therefore , there ' s a lot
11 of need , obviously .
12 So primarily it ' s an engineering decision .
13 They have to be able to be under the line . There ' s a
14 138-Kv Oncor line that goes through . So we have to be
15 under or beside that line . So obviously that in itself
16 is a large limitation . And then past that , there also
17 has to be a way to get the Coserv ' s distribution
18 circuits out . So -- so in a very real sense , a lot of
19 it is just strictly engineering .
20 MR. MARKS : So there ' s really no
21 consideration as to the location as far as what effect
22 it would have on the community .
23 MR. CARPENTER: Sure . I mean , that ' s
24 always a consideration . But when you have developments ,
25 you -- for reliability , you have to have the
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1 substations .
2 MR . MARKS : Are we going to talk about
3 the -- well , the information that I got -- I received
4 says that you are able to move -- possibly move the
5 location and still be able to put up your lines
6 according to your engineering plans in other areas .
7 MR . CARPENTER: well , I mean , obviously
8 that ' s not the only location in the whole world you
9 could put it . But , truthfully, every location has its
10 own problems . And so you can put it at that location ,
11 you can put it at another location . I mean , there ' s a
12 certain amount of problems with every location , though .
13 So I 'm not telling you that ' s the only
14 place in the world it could be . Certainly not . But
15 again , we -- we did look, with the City , at a number of
16 other sites and each had its own problems that frankly
17 were insurmountable .
18 MR. MARKS : So there isn ' t another
19 location or there is?
20 MR . CARPENTER: I ' m not saying -- I can ' t
21 tell you that we ' ve looked at every site , you know, in
22 the world . we ' ve obviously not. But we ' ve looked at
23 all the practical sites , the sites that for economic
24 reasons and other reasons , engineering reasons work.
25 And this was the site that was chosen .
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1 MR. MARKS : Okay. Thank you .
2 UNIDENTIFIED : (Inaudible) have a
3 question .
4 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Okay. Did you or did
5 you not , your group , when we met did you all not bring
6 another proposal for another position -- another place .
7 MR. CARPENTER: Yes , we did .
8 MAYOR MCCOURRY: You all did state that
9 there was another place --
10 MR . CARPENTER: uh-huh .
11 MAYOR MCCOURRY: -- that was -- that was
12 viable and usable and did not have insurmountable
13 reasons as to why you couldn ' t go there . So what you
14 just told him is not quite accurate .
15 MR. CARPENTER : No . That had problems in
16 that the only other site that was really economically
17 viable and would engineering-wise work was a tract Mr .
18 Billingsley owns and he -- he said he would not agree to
19 that , which would mean condemning him . So we can
20 condemn -- we already have condemned for the other site ,
21 and the other alternative would be to condemn Mr .
22 Billingsley . so that I 'm not sure that really gets us
23 anywhere .
24 MAYOR MCCOURRY: And is -- talk to us
25 about , you know, the -- one of the reasons that you say
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1 it was insurmountable was , one , because it was in a
2 flood zone ; right? And in one -- in at least two of the --
3
3 alternatives that was provided , and they were right next
4 to the current Cosery station that sets off of Plano
5 Parkway back away from the road so that it is not an
6 eyesore . can you --
7 MR . CARPENTER: Are you talking about the
8 oncor substation?
9 MAYOR MCCOURRY: The Oncor substation ,
10 I ' m sorry .
11 MR. CARPENTER : well , if you read the
12 letter we sent the City --
13 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Um-hum .
14 MR. CARPENTER: -- we -- using Mr .
15 Billingsley ' s engineers ' study that they had done , the
16 site immediately next to the substation would require 10
17 feet of fill , and the cost of that is going to be around
18 $3 ,000 , 000 . So that ' s a difficult -- I mean , that ' s a
19 big problem .
20 MAYOR MCCOURRY: And -- and the amount of
21 buying a hard corner at twice the property value
22 doesn ' t -- doesn ' t even , you know, come close to that
23 $3 , 000 , 000? I mean , let ' s do some footage calc --
24 MR. CARPENTER : Well --
25 MAYOR MCCOURRY: -- five acres in , you
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1 know --
2 MR. CARPENTER: The property did not
3 cost -- it did not cost 3 , 000 , 000 .
4 MAYOR MCCOURRY: I don ' t know that the
5 property value ' s been set yet ; right?
6 MR . CARPENTER: There was a condemnation
7 award that ' s currently on appeal . so obviously, no , we
8 don ' t know the final number .
9 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Okay.
10 MR. CARPENTER : There -- I don ' t recall
11 off the top of my head what the appraisal -- their
12 appraisal was . It seems like to me , I 'm not sure it ' s
13 as much as 3 , 000 , 000 . I don ' t remember , to be honest
14 with you . But it ' s -- it ' s somewhere in that range .
15 But then , of course , that doesn ' t include
16 having to buy the property or condemn it from Mr .
17 Billingsley . That ' s $3 , 000 , 000 plus , then purchasing
18 the property .
19 MAYOR MCCOURRY: So there are
20 alternatives . And in buying an expensive corner , you
21 know, you all did not really consider us , as rate
22 payers , to buy an expensive corner where , you know, the
23 average -- the average cost down there is $20 a foot ,
24 versus where you get back off of the -- off of the Plano
25 Parkway footage and you ' re somewhere around 10 or $12 a
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1 square foot . So how are you helping me , as a rate
2 payer , to say that you ' re protecting my interest , in
3 going after a high dollar value corner?
4 MR. CARPENTER : Well , I think you ' re
5 forgetting we have to be under the line or right next to
6 the line .
7 MAYOR MCCOURRY: The opportunity ' s also
8 in site 5 , which is on the east side . It is flat . As a
9 matter of fact , it is on the right side of the low
10 voltage lines . And that site is something that -- you
11 know, your objections about the ravine , that ' s on the
12 south side of the lines , not on the north side of the
13 lines .
14 MR. CARPENTER: Yes , sir .
15 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Can -- can the
16 engineering be done on the amount of property that is
17 there?
18 MR. CARPENTER: No .
19 MAYOR MCCOURRY: It seems that , you know,
20 the other utility major player in the market says that ,
21 yes , it can . They ' re also saying that it ' s -- it ' s the
22 prime place to be because you do need to be next to
23 the -- to the low one . what is it , 138 , 134 line?
24 MR. CARPENTER: 138 , yeah .
25 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Because when it comes
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1 out of the east side of that -- that distribution center
2 down there , it is on the north side .
3 MR. CARPENTER: That -- that site
4 actually is very narrow. If you -- I don ' t know if
5 you ' ve driven up there .
6 MAYOR MCCOURRY: I ' ve been up there .
7 I ' ve walked it .
8 MR. CARPENTER : But that ' s a very narrow
9 site that also has a lot of slope on it . So there ' s all
10 sorts of grade problems with that . There are -- there
11 are restrictions of how close things can be built to
12 the -- to the lines up above it . So if you -- if you
13 build up the grade , you 've got real problems . If you --
14 I mean , you ' re talking about a lot of work.
15 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Is there not an
16 elevation situation on this corner as well ?
17 MR . CARPENTER: Sure .
18 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Is that not an elevation
19 that ' s going up just as well ? So there ' s elevation
20 problems -- as a matter of fact , I believe the
21 elevations on that corner are steeper than the
22 elevations that are up there on Site Number 5 .
23 MR . CARPENTER: They probably are , but we
24 wouldn ' t have to be as far --
25 MAYOR MCCOURRY: So either elevation is
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1 an issue or it ' s not . I mean , you know, if you 've
2 got --
3 MR. CARPENTER : well , it depends on the
4 site .
5 MAYOR MCCOURRY: -- steep elevation , then
6 you can -- you can take a truck to it , but yet you can ' t
7 go up there where it ' s even flatter and not make that
8 work? Tell me -- I don ' t understand .
9 MR . CARPENTER: well , you ' re talking
10 about a very confined space up on the ravine . And so
11 you don ' t have a lot of space to work with like you do
12 on this other site . The other site has a lot of space
13 to work with . That ' s why there ' s that much was
14 condemned , because we know we do have problems with
15 elevation there .
16 But -- but one of your other problems is
17 access . If you saw the letter that we sent -- did each
18 of you see the letter? You ' ll notice that those trucks
19 are enormous trucks . And to get those trucks in , we --
20 you know, you can ' t -- you can ' t do a truck like that
21 over a normal city street . I mean , you can a short
22 distance , but you ' re talking about routing through
23 plaintiff -- Plano ' s just residential neighborhood . And
24 then down a --
25 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Only the --
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1 MR . CARPENTER: -- narrow dirt road .
2 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Only the section from
3 Midway to the end of that concrete is in a residential
4 neighborhood . Everything else is a -- is a main
5 thoroughfare street in order to get you to that site .
6 MR . CARPENTER: No . I ' m talking about
7 from Midway on . And then -- then you come to a dirt
8 road . And again you ' ve got a -- you ' ve got a truck
9 that ' s nearly a hundred feet long . And once you get it
10 in there , how are you going to get it out? I mean ,
11 you ' re talking about a very narrow piece of property .
12 And I ' ll be honest with you . Rather than
13 sit and argue with you -- you know, I ' m a lawyer . I ' m
14 not an engineer .
15 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Sure .
16 MR. CARPENTER : But -- and I know most of
17 you are probably not engineers . The engineers say it ' s
18 not workable , and I have to stop there .
19 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Hmm . So now we have two
20 utilities that have different ideas , but they can -- you
21 know, one says that this is the ideal site to put it and
22 the other one says it ' s not even workable .
23 MR. CARPENTER: Well , we --
24 MAYOR MCCOURRY: So now then we ' re left
25 to make that decision ourselves as to , you know, what is
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1 the viability of what you ' re asking us for.
2 MR . CARPENTER: Well , I can ' t speak for
3 Oncor . They -- and , frankly , we ' ve talked to Oncor and
4 they ' ve not told us that . You know, we ' ve -- in fact ,
5 I ' ve got an email from the person we were asked to
6 contact , and he -- he asked us to go back and contact
7 Jacob Lewis , who is Brazos ' normal contact. And he has
8 not told us what you ' ve just said .
9 So I don ' t know where you ' re getting your
10 information .
11 MR . TERRE : Would you repeat that? I
12 didn ' t hear . Make that statement again .
13 MR . CARPENTER : The person that we were
14 told to contact was Charles Elk. And I ' ve got an email
15 here from Mr . Elk and he says to contact Jacob Lewis
16 with Oncor , who is -- who Brazos works with all the
17 time . And he is not telling us what you ' re telling us .
18 MAYOR MCCOURRY: So have you all made
19 application to move this site and to see what Oncor ' s
20 statements would be if you asked to move this site?
21 That was also one of the things . Have you made an
22 official application to them in order to move this?
23 MR . CARPENTER: You don ' t -- and again
24 you ' re getting outside of my area again . I don ' t deal
25 with that really .
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1 They have talked to Oncor . But the truth
2 is , even if oncor says we can use it , Brazos ' engineers
3 say it ' s not usable . I mean , Oncor can say , "Sure , you
4 can put it there . " And they ' ve not done that to this
5 point , but even if they do , we don ' t believe there ' s
6 enough room to use that site .
7 You ' ve got , again , a 345 , and you can ' t
8 put anything under a 345 . we 've never done that . And
9 then there ' s a 138 . They ' re very close together . They
10 have overlapping easements . And Oncor has said -- we
11 will not go under a 345 . It ' s -- it ' s very unsafe . It
12 puts their employees at risk . And so that -- that can ' t
13 happen .
14 And those again are very close together .
15 They' ve narrowed that tract because of the topography .
16 And where down further they' re further apart , the 345
17 and the 138 , when you get up there , they ' re much closer
18 together and there ' s simply not room .
19 Obviously , we can ' t block the road because
20 that road goes back to the water district . There ' s also
21 an Oncor distribution line cutting right across the
22 center of this tract .
23 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Yes , there is .
24 MR. CARPENTER: So --
25 MAYOR MCCOURRY: But it ' s out -- it ' s
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1 outside the road . The road , you never have to make --
2 you never have to make a turn . --
3 According to the piece of property that
4 Mr . Billingsley is -- is willing , you know, to put
5 towards this particular item , one of your objections was
6 when you -- that truck had to make a turn . No , it
7 doesn ' t . It would go straight into your property -- it
8 would go straight into the property that you all would
9 have for you all to use . Right at the end of that road ,
10 where that -- the regular trucks from Plano going down
11 there to their lift station , that would be your
12 property . You step off of the end of that road right
13 there , never having to make a turn , and you ' re already
14 within your property in order to set up your station .
15 So , you know --
16 MR . CARPENTER : I understand . But even
17 with all that , it ' s still too narrow and the engineers
18 say it will not work .
19 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Well , I don ' t think
20 we ' re going to get any -- any farther on that . So --
21 MR. TERRE : Just -- just a side question
22 on the engineering information you rely on . Those are
23 Brazos engineers that you rely on? You haven ' t brought
24 in an outside engineering firm that would have no --
25 MR. CARPENTER: Actually we do use an
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1 outside engineering firm . So we use Brazos engineers
2 for portions of it , like we use Kimley Horn for portions
3 of it , and then there ' s another engineering firm that --
4 outside engineering firm that --
5 MR. TERRE : I know when you go through
6 any process , there are certain people that are going to
7 have a different approach to scientific data and come up
8 with one solution versus someone else having a different
9 solution .
10 So I guess you ' re telling me that you have
11 really gone in an unbiased approach to trying to find
12 out if this is a workable site or not . And you really
13 trust these engineering data that -- that is -- that is
14 the reality?
15 MR . CARPENTER: Yes , sir . And I ' ll tell
16 you , Brazos has spent a lot of time . They ' ve devoted a
17 lot of engineering time to this . You know, again , when
18 you ' re talking about what can be done , nearly anything
19 can be done with enough money , with enough , you know,
20 crazy stuff.
21 MR. TERRE : Okay .
22 MR. CARPENTER: But -- but as a practical
23 matter , to do this economically and to do it right , it
24 is not workable . And Brazos engineering is convinced of
25 that .
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1 MR. TERRE : Okay. Thanks .
2 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Mr . Marks? --
3 MR. MARKS : Why is it called the Josey
4 Electrical Substation? Did you guys plan on putting it
5 on Josey Lane originally or something?
6 MR. CARPENTER : I don ' t know the answer
7 to that . usually when they ' re starting off, they just
8 kind of have an area and they use some prominent
9 feature . Sometime it ' s a creek ; sometime it ' s a street .
10 But I don ' t know. I wasn ' t involved at that point in
11 the process .
12 MR. MARKS : Well , as a -- as a
13 representative of citizens here in The Colony , I ' m stuck
14 between a rock and a hard place . Nobody I know wants
15 this in that -- in that spot . People across the way in
16 Carrollton don ' t want it in that spot . And it doesn ' t
17 make any economic sense for the -- for us as far as it
18 being a good , hard retail corner .
19 It just doesn ' t make any sense . It
20 doesn ' t meet -- and it seems to me as if this was all
21 done because you knew that this was what kind of a
22 reaction you would have if you came to us and said ,
23 "we ' d like to put the substation here . "
24 MR. CARPENTER: well , actually Brazos
25 began talking to the City staff in 2012 , and this kind
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1 of objection was not voiced at that time . So when it
2 was all initially done , that ' s -- those objections were
3 not made .
4 MR. POWELL : I can tell you , though , one
5 of the reasons those objections were not made was the
6 first time it was brought to me , I was told that this
7 was the only site that would work. So as we came down
8 the road and we found other sites we feel will work, if
9 we would have had that information upfront , then I doubt
10 the reaction would have been the same .
11 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Okay. Mr . Schrag?
12 MR . SCHRAG : This is kind of a silly
13 question . But just before you guys got off on the
14 technical discussion and all that , I don ' t remember the
15 comment that was made but it started making me think.
16 You were talking about this particular site being
17 condemned versus you were looking at condemning
18 something from Billingsley . And did you just not want
19 to deal with Billingsley on a condemnation and that ' s
20 why you went --
21 MR. CARPENTER: No . This was --
22 MR . SCHRAG : -- to this one?
23 MR. CARPENTER : This was just the last
24 couple of months ago . The condemnation on the original
25 site took place in January . And so this was in talking
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1 to see if it was possible to find another site .
2 So Brazos has spent several months trying --
3 to -- trying to look to see if there was something that
4 we could do that would satisfy the City and also then
5 work for --
6 MR. SCHRAG : No , I know. But I meant on
7 the original decision , when you guys -- because
8 obviously you had to start the condemnation hearings on
9 this site . It just occurred to me , I just started
10 thinking that you guys went to this site because you
11 didn ' t want to have to deal with Billingsley --
12 MR. CARPENTER : No .
13 MR. SCHRAG : -- on a condemnation .
14 MR . CARPENTER: No , that was not the -- __
15 MR. SCHRAG : Which , quite frankly --
16 MR . CARPENTER: A condemnation is the
17 same with anybody . So -- and I do a lot of the
18 condemnations , and it really doesn ' t matter who it is .
19 I mean , it ' s --
20 MR . SCHRAG : Okay .
21 MR . CARPENTER : A condemnation is a
22 condemnation .
23 MR . WADE : I have a question .
24 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Sure , go ahead .
25 MR . WADE : who is going to benefit from
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1 the power this is going to supply? Is this --
2 MR. CARPENTER: It would be just anybody
3 in the Cosery area that ' s -- you know, I mean , I can ' t
4 tell you the --
5 MR. WADE : Yeah .
6 MR . CARPENTER : -- this house or that
7 house .
8 MR . WADE : Yeah . I was going to say
9 house or house . But anyone specific? I guess in a
10 different area . You say in an area of Coserv . How --
11 how far out does this reach , this area?
12 MR . CARPENTER : I ' m afraid I don ' t know
13 the answer to that . It ' s -- you know, they ' ve got
14 substations located in various areas .
15 MR . WADE : Okay .
16 MR . CARPENTER: And they overlap as load
17 grows . As you -- I don ' t have to tell you , you ' re
18 having explosive growth , both residential and
19 commercial . And so , you know, the existing substations
20 can ' t supply all the -- all the load .
21 MR. WADE : Right .
22 MR. CARPENTER : And so it depends . And
23 there' s some shuffling that can go on . You know•, I
24 mean , it ' s not -- it ' s not exactly a hard line . I mean ,
25 distribution feeders come out and go different places .
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1 But it ' s -- it ' s a general area , I mean , around the
2 substation .
3 MR. WADE : Say 10 miles , five miles , two
4 miles?
5 MR . CARPENTER: I ' m afraid you ' re --
6 you ' re asking a lawyer the wrong question .
7 MR . WADE : would the engineer know that ' s
8 back there?
9 MR. HAMLIN : Hello . I ' m Robby Hamlin ,
10 senior director of engineering for Cosery -- excuse
11 me -- located in Corinth .
12 The location that we ' re talking about will
13 serve north up to the Grandscape development . It will
14 also serve to the west in the castle Hills area . It
15 will serve the north side of 121, all the frontage on
16 both north and south side right there . so this -- and
17 it will also go to the east along 121 and down towards
18 the -- and the street escapes me right now, but towards
19 Spring Creek that way. So --
20 MR . WADE : Okay .
21 MR . HAMLIN : It ' s -- it ' s probably about
22 a five-mile radius around the substation .
23 MR. WADE : Okay . So I guess technically
24 it ' s going to be serving Toyota , the south side of
25 Frisco and Castle Hills and a portion of Grandscape .
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1 MR . HAMLIN : Well , it will actually serve
2 all of Grandscape . But it will also -- and -- well ,
3 Cosery is not going to serve Toyota , as we know right
4 now. But the Castle Hills area , yes . The north side of
5 121, yes . Both The colony and into -- and I think into
6 Frisco as well .
7 MR. WADE : okay . so I guess technically ,
8 going back to your question of why they call it Josey ,
9 it sounds to me like it started off in Josey and got
10 pushed to the east .
11 MR . HAMLIN : When we -- when we do
12 long-range planning on substations , we basically look at
13 a general area that one ' s going to be needed . And in
14 the 2007 long-range plan that we did , we said somewhere
15 within a five-mile radius right here , we ' re going to
16 need a substation . Josey was close to it , so they
17 called it Josey substation .
18 And the other thing when we all -- when we
19 start looking at substation sites --
20 MR. WADE : Um-hum .
21 MR. HAMLIN : -- or substation names , we
22 also look at ERCOT. Electric Reliability Council of
23 Texas has requirements that you can ' t have two
24 substations named the same thing .
25 MR. WADE : Yeah .
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1 MR. HAMLIN : So you ' re also limited on
2 that .
3 MR. WADE : Okay . Thank you .
4 MR . HAMLIN : Um-hum .
5 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Mr . Schrag .
6 MR. SCHRAG : It is my night to ask
7 simpleton questions . I can ' t even get to construction
8 and cell phone correct . But anyway , is there a place up
9 on Josey that it can be moved to?
10 MR . HAMLIN : No .
11 MR . SCHRAG : Why not?
12 MR . CARPENTER: You know, I don ' t know
13 that I can answer that because , obviously , you have to
14 do a lot of studies to know where a substation is going
15 to go .
16 MR . SCHRAG : I know, I realize -- but I
17 mean , you were originally identifying that as the
18 primary area . So that ' s why I was wondering if there
19 was a location up there that it could be located to .
20 MR . CARPENTER: Let me just -- let me say
21 this . The Public Utility Commission puts on the
22 electric utilities the burden of serving their load .
23 And -- and , frankly , I don ' t recall ever putting a
24 substation where anybody wanted it . You know, if you
25 put it here , these people don ' t like it . If you put it
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1 here , these people don ' t like it . But if you -- if you
2 notice , substations are everywhere . And as much as
3 people usually complain --
4 MAYOR MCCOURRY: 99 percent of the time
5 they ' re not on a main street .
6 MR. CARPENTER: well , actually there are
7 a lot on main streets , if you ' ll look . There are
8 many -- the truth is you get -- you get used to seeing
9 them .
10 I was driving down the road the other day
11 and my wife was looking at a neighborhood and she said
12 what a pretty neighborhood it was .
13 And we drove on down the block and I said ,
14 "Did you notice the power lines , the transmission lines
15 going through there?"
16 And she said , "I didn ' t notice them. "
17 And the truth is you do drive past
18 substations every day, even on major streets . Once
19 they ' re there , the truth is you don ' t notice them .
20 They ' re just like cell towers . They ' re like everything
21 else , your own installations you have as a city .
22 They ' re -- they ' re just part of the infrastructure .
23 we regret that the City ' s upset about it .
24 we don ' t want the City to be upset . we want to work
25 with the city . But our primary duty from the Public
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1 utility Commission is to serve the load . And if we
2 don ' t serve the load , well , we will be -- we will have a
3 lot bigger problems than this . The Public utility
4 Commission , the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission ,
5 there are a number of commissions that we will have to
6 answer to for that .
7 And simply when you have the load , growth ,
8 as you ' re having , you simply have to have more
9 infrastructure . You know, just as you have to build
10 streets , you have to build schools . You know, I ' m sure
11 your school district condemns sometimes to build new
12 school buildings . And people are unhappy about it at
13 the beginning , but you have to have it for the public
14 good .
15 so we ' re not trying to do anything to The
16 colony . we ' re simply serving the load that ' s already
17 here .
18 MR . TERRE : You know, what you say may be
19 true , but the reality is there ' s one gateway to our city
20 coming from that direction , and that is right there at
21 windhaven and Parkway. That -- that area , the potential
22 value of that property , there ' s no way it is not
23 diminished dramatically.
24 And we had folks from all around coming in
25 here two weeks ago , making , you know, as public input
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1 about it . So it ' s not just about the people on the
2 property and the city , but the folks who live around
3 there also have a stake in this .
4 I just -- you know, I will never
5 understand how it absolutely does not make sense any way
6 you look at it to be at this one spot and that can ' t be
7 a 10-acre site that can be moved away from that corner ,
8 where all the potential and the gateway of our city does
9 exist .
10 And once it ' s there , you say you ' ll forget
11 about it . I don ' t think so . I don ' t think I ' ll ever
12 forget about driving up that street if I see that thing
13 any time I approach the intersection coming either
14 direction .
15 So -- and you really don ' t have a chance
16 to correct it . I mean , it ' s a one time opportunity to
17 do it right .
18 MR. CARPENTER : Well , let me --
19 MR. TERRE : And that ' s what baffles my
20 imagination , that we ' ve continued this for two sessions
21 now in an effort to find a way to work in every
22 direction we could to compromise and come up with a
23 solution to the problem , and there ' s been no move .
24 And so it -- so you just make that
25 statement , but , believe me , I ' m not driving down there
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1 and not noticing that substation , no matter what you
2 tell me . There will be , I think , a lot of other folks
3 here have the same kind of bad taste in their mouth
4 every time they go by , thinking why is it here . So --
5 MR. CARPENTER: Well , I would point out
6 to you that the oncor substation is just across the
7 road , and --
8 MAYOR MCCOURRY: And you notice that they
9 put it down there so that it ' s not on the main street .
10 we talked to them when they first came here . we worked
11 with Mr . Billingsley and we worked with oncor . They
12 agreed to move that station back there . They did the
13 fill thing , you know, in order to put their station just
14 the way they wanted it . And it is not the eyesore that
15 this will be .
16 MR. CARPENTER: well , actually it ' s --
17 MAYOR MCCOURRY: It ' s unfair to that
18 oncor station .
19 MR . CARPENTER: -- very visible . It ' s
20 actually very visible . For me as someone who doesn ' t
21 live here , when I drive up the street , I see it , just as
22 you ' re going to -- you know, anybody else is going to
23 see this other substation .
24 But again , I understand your objections
25 and --
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1 MS . RADER: (Inaudible) . May I? I ' m --
2 my name ' s Holly Rader , area manager at oncor . And I
3 just want to say that we ' re willing to work with any
4 interconnection , any other proposals that come in . So I
5 just want to make that clear to everybody here . And if
6 there are any questions or comments , please let me know.
7 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Thank you very much .
8 MR . TERRE : State your name -- state your
9 name and your position at Oncor again .
10 MS . RADER: Holly Rader at Oncor , area
11 manager .
12 MR . TERRE : Have you been in
13 connection -- in communication with the Brazos people at
14 this point?
15 MS . RADER: You know, I ' ve been in
16 communication with Charles Elk, with Jacob Lewis , and
17 he ' s been in communication with Brazos .
18 MR. TERRE : I didn ' t -- I didn ' t get the
19 feeling that there was a real effort to work with oncor ,
20 from my experience over the last month . But you ' re
21 telling me there is or isn ' t?
22 MS . RADER: And I will say that I am here
23 for the communication aspect of it . I know there has
24 been communications with oncor and Brazos , the City to
25 decide on a site . And we ' re just here to kind of
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1 direct .
2 obviously , we ' re -- we have a tariff in
3 which , if there is an interconnection , it depends on
4 many things . obviously , safety is the number one thing .
5 But also where our facilities at -- are at , the point of
6 interconnection . So there ' s other various factors that
7 come into play .
8 MR . TERRE : Do you share the desire to
9 find in this case a solution that would not put the
10 station where we think would be detrimental for all the
11 right reasons we just talked about? The evidences are
12 to help us move that location to a more suitable one
13 that would work for everybody?
14 MS . RADER: of course , we ' re willing to
15 work with anybody .
16 MR . TERRE : Okay .
17 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Thank you .
18 MS . RADER: Um-hum .
19 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Richard?
20 MR. BOYER: You know -- mic . You know,
21 as he said , they ' ve got to service the load , and we ' ve
22 got to represent our constituents and the citizens of
23 this city. And we have a right and responsibility to be
24 able to provide services ongoing to those citizens .
25 And I find it unacceptable that there ' s a
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1 refusal to work on alternate sites and to take up a
2 corner that should be developed the way the other
3 corners at that intersection are developed , that do
4 provide , you know, the types of revenues that help us to
5 continue to provide services , while this station , while
6 it would service part of our city , it also serves other
7 cities .
8 And it ' s -- it ' s frustrating . I had hoped
9 that there was a little more willingness to consider the
io multiple alternatives that were provided . And it ' s , you
11 know -- it ' s , you know, sincerely disappointing that we
12 are at this point where almost we ' re being told take it
13 or leave it . And given that choice , I know what my
14 choice is .
15 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Yes , sir . Please state
16 your name .
17 MR. WALDRON : Yes , sir . My name is Miles
18 waldron . I live at 2220 Longwood Drive in Carrollton ,
19 Texas . I ' m in Austin Waters . I am a professional
20 engineer .
21 what I ' d say is use are mentioned
22 correctly , that the 138-Kv line does transition at the
23 Oncor substation on the northeast side of the property
24 and goes over to the north of the 345 , I believe , is the
25 other voltage , the high voltage that they ' re trying to
-----------
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1 avoid . so there is a transition that ' s made there in
2 that substation . —
3 Then if you go further down to the east
4 and go to Communications Parkway , you will see a
5 transition of that 138-Kv line underneath the 345 line
6 and go into another substation that 1 believe is owned
7 by oncor . And there is an extension off of that
8 substation that you can see where there ' s a division
9 fence , but the bus has been extended , that 138-Kv level ,
10 to a different substation .
11 1 will agree from what the person said
12 from the law firm that it is a more -- that place has a
13 more transitional slope where you can deal with it . It
14 is a challenge . But engineers like a challenge . —
15 And they ' ve got to realize , sirs , and
16 folks here , you know , please , 1 ask you to forcefully
17 say your position on this to Coserv . Thank you .
18 MR . TERRE : Are you saying that your
19 knowledge and your background , you ' ve actually looked at
20 it and , in your opinion , there is an alternative site
21 that could be found --
22 MR. WALDRON : There are -- there are --
23 MR. TERRE : -- within the --
24 MR. WALDRON : As they have said also
25 themselves , there are numerous -- there are numerous
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1 sites that are alternative sites .
2 MR . TERRE : That ' s all I wanted to
3 clarify .
4 MR. WALDRON : There ' s a --
5 MR. TERRE : (Inaudible) .
6 MR. WALDRON : You ' ve got a nice ridge
7 back over to the west of there that ' s fallen right
8 underneath the line . And it may get into Billingsley ' s
9 property . I don ' t really care , you know. But there ' s a
10 good site there .
11 MR. TERRE : Okay .
12 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Okay.
13 MR. WALDRON : All right?
14 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Thank you .
15 MR. WALDRON : You bet .
16 MAYOR MCCOURRY: This is a public
17 hearing . Anyone wishing to speak for or against this
18 item can just step to the microphone , state your name
19 and address for the record .
20 MR. VANDEHEY: Hi . My name is Bob
21 vandehey . I also live in Austin Waters , at 2257
22 Cardinal Boulevard .
23 I appreciate the City Council ' s support --
24 or actually against this station . It ' s going to be an
25 eyesore . we already have one there . And , you know, I
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1 live -- I live there . You hardly see it .
2 It -- there are numerous different areas --
3 when you look at the map that it appears that it could
4 be in . You can go all the way down to Josey . You can
5 go to windhaven . You can be on the east -- southeast
6 side -- southeast side of the lot there , that ' s right
7 under the power lines there , that it could go there .
8 It ' s a commercial area . You could also go just a little
9 bit more north and get closer to its actual target
10 market of Nebraska and several commercial areas there .
11 I know my neighborhood doesn ' t have
12 Coserv. So it ' s not even going to serve my
13 neighborhood .
14 And really the only objections that I
15 really heard from the gentleman was cost , that there was
16 going to be maybe a $3 , 000 , 000 more cost that they were
17 going to do . For such a large company as Brazos , that
18 seems to be something that they could absorb and do to
19 appease and protect such a valuable piece of property in
20 our community .
21 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Thank you .
22 MS . DEES : My name is Mary Dees . I live
23 at 5013 Sage Hill Drive in Austin waters in Carrollton ,
24 Texas . I ' m the president of the Austin waters
25 Homeowners Association .
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1 I believe you ' ve received emails and
2 letters from many of our residents . we will not benefit
3 at all from the electricity that will be generated at
4 that , but we will view that from our front porches , from
5 our community pool , from walking around our
6 neighborhood .
7 I never noticed the oncor substation was
8 there until I looked for it because Oncor did a fabulous
9 job of moving it away from a major corner and barriering
10 it in such a way .
11 Billingsley Company has done a phenomenal
12 job developing Austin Ranch . I ' ve lived in Dallas 35
13 years , 32 of them in Dallas , and moved here three years
14 ago because I loved the area so much . It is one of the
15 most picturesque places in this entire area . The horses
16 on the corner just are beautiful . You have like a
17 museum in public .
18 And right across the street , in view of
19 very expensive housing , will be a substation . And I
20 understand utility needs to be generated , but I find it
21 hard to believe that they cannot find another location
22 that will not completely destroy a retail corner and the
23 view of 300 , 000 to $800 , 000 homes and all of this very
24 expensive rental property .
25 I implore you to please deny this request
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1 for a SUP and have them move it to a different location .
2 I think it will be detrimental to The Colony , all of --
3 Austin Ranch , and particularly all the homeowners who
4 purchase homes in Austin waters . Thank you .
5 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Thank you .
6 MS . MARTIN : Christie Martin , 5604
7 Longhorn Drive .
8 I would like to apologize to the gentleman
9 from Brazos for the incredibly unprofessional and rude
10 behavior of my representatives here tonight in speaking
11 to him in this manner in front of this roomful of
12 people . Having been in that position myself, I know
13 that there are other ways to deal with it outside this
14 room . You could just vote against it . You don ' t have
15 to go through this -- this big fight here in a roomful ,
16 where there are children who are learning how to behave
17 like men and women .
18 So I do agree that that is not the best
19 location for a substation . But we ' re not going to solve
20 this issue here tonight . so I would ask my
21 representatives to just be polite , vote against it ,
22 let ' s move on . Thank you .
23 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Is Mr . Sifferman here?
24 MR. SIFFERMAN : Thank you . It ' s nice to
25 be back here again , not for the wrong reasons but for
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1 the right reasons . So thank you for that . And I
2 appreciate all your support and comments . So thanks for
3 that .
4 I ' m actually a registered professional
5 engineer in Oklahoma --
6 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Can I get you to state
7 your name and address --
8 MR . SIFFERMAN : Tom --
9 MAYOR MCCOURRY: -- for the record ,
10 please .
11 MR. SIFFERMAN : Tom Sifferman , 5036
12 Dickens Lane , Carrollton , Austin Waters . As I say , I ' m
13 a Registered Professional Engineer in Oklahoma .
14 Once upon a time when I took courses in
15 college , we had a thing called ethics . We ' d not only
16 look at the engineering part but also what you ' re doing
17 for society . So engineers should be doing that nowadays
18 too .
19 And I -- I am sort of annoyed because , you
20 know, I read somewhere there were only two postcards
21 sent out to the neighboring areas . I feel like this is
22 trying -- they ' re trying to do something in terms of
23 being smart , clever , or whatever the term should be , but
24 they ' re trying to beat the system by getting in now
25 before people move into the area to the south of
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1 windhaven there , you know.
2 So there ' s just a lot of things that don ' t --
3 make me feel good . And I brought up the issue of why
4 Josey station way , way back too , last -- two weeks ago ,
5 because that ' s what it sounds like it should have been .
6 So I ' m having a hard time with a lot of this .
7 And , you know, they don ' t have to have the
8 certificate of convenience and necessity because it
9 draws power from that thing right above it. But there ' s
10 a lot of good places to have this thing happen besides
11 that .
12 And I still have a hard time trying to
13 understand where all this power is going . I hear
14 Nebraska Furniture and Nebraska Furniture and Nebraska
15 Furniture . Every time I go by, the power ' s on . Their
16 lights are on . So why do we need this new station? You
17 know, maybe to supplement it . But maybe it ' s for a
18 whole bunch of other places all over the place .
19 we in Austin waters don ' t get any of this
20 power . So we have an eyesore and possibly a health
21 hazard , and it ' s not doing us any good . So , you know, I
22 don ' t really see the need for this there . There ' s a lot
23 of other places .
24 And I really don ' t feel like we ' ve had
25 answers from Brazos . we get nonanswers . And they ' re
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1 trying to protect their engineers from giving us
2 answers , even here tonight .
3 So I don ' t think that ' s the way to work
4 with the City and with the citizens and I think it ' s
5 something you ought to think about that .
6 The area to our east is actually in The
7 colony . on the other side of the creek there is part of
8 Austin Ranch also . Heritage is building that . Those
9 people are going to be seeing it and they ' re Colony
10 residents also . So you know , they ' re beating the system
11 again by getting the SUP before the houses go in .
12 So I thank you very much for listening .
13 Appreciate it .
14 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Thank you .
15 I also have two written statements here
16 requesting that the Council vote against 5 . 1 and 5 . 2
17 from additional individuals .
18 Yes , sir .
19 MR. HART: My name is Timothy Hart . I ' m
20 the manager of engineering at Brazos Electric
21 Cooperative .
22 I came here with the -- as much as I don ' t
23 like public speaking , I ' m willing to do it in the hopes
24 of putting to rest a lot of, in some cases , mistruths
25 and misinformation .
JILL JOHNSON, Certified shorthand Reporter
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1 I guess I should state I ' m Timothy Hart ,
2 manager of engineering at Brazos Electric . I office out --
3 of 7616 Bagby Avenue in Waco .
4 Thirty years in the industry , in
5 electrical power distribution . Simply being a
6 Registered Professional Engineer in the state of Texas
7 is not adequate to be an expert in power delivery .
8 Okay?
9 I will say that we ' ve had a lot of very
10 experienced engineers and consultants determine that the
11 site that ' s currently in our possession is the optimal
12 site to deliver electrical energy to the area identified
13 by cosery to serve their load .
14 I ' ve been personally involved , working
15 with our consultants , working with Mr . -- well , not
16 working with Mr . Billingsley . But I wanted to point out
17 that on July the 9th , when we had our meeting and we
18 discussed alternative sites , Brazos has already
19 identified the site that we have .
20 we have that site because we ' ve already
21 determined that is the optimal site for us to do our
22 business . It includes locating substations underneath
23 existing transmission lines to avoid the schedule and
24 line extension cc and necessities . okay?
25 we have a schedule on this project . we ' re
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1 already overdue . This schedule -- this project was
2 already identified to be in service by spring of this
3 year . we don ' t even have a scratch of dirt out there .
4 Okay? Because we ' ve been trying to answer everybody ' s
5 questions . we ' ve been very detailed in our site
6 studies . we ' ve hired experts . we have Kimley Horn . we
7 have another engineering company out of Colorado
8 actively doing the substation design .
9 So I would say that we have , as part of an
10 appeasement to everybody involved , considered
11 alternative sites , even though it ' s not our primary
12 objective to go to another site . we ' ve already
13 determined what our best site is .
14 Now, on the July 9th meeting we proposed
15 an alternative site across Plano Parkway , just outside
16 Austin Ranch substation , Oncor ' s Austin Ranch
17 substation . okay? Mr . Billingsley , without cause ,
18 without any support , just stood up and said , "That ' s
19 unacceptable . " And everybody said okay . Okay?
20 So we leave the meeting with this
21 Alternative Number 5 Mr . Billingsley has identified . we
22 all identified it by maps of the area . we go to our
23 office and get an email the next day proposing these 10
24 acres with a ravine going through the middle of it .
25 okay?
JILL JOHNSON, Certified Shorthand Reporter
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1 I am an engineer . I ' ve been working with
2 the consultants . I do know that the trucks that we use
3 to back up these facilities are nearly a hundred feet in
4 length and they weigh 190 , 000 pounds fully loaded . And
5 you -- it ' s tough for me to imagine that you can drive
6 that truck down that eight-tenths of a mile that we
7 drove down to get to that little , narrow dirt road . It
s does lead directly into the substation , but what do you
9 do when you get there? Have you ever pulled a boat into
10 a parking lot behind your truck and said , "what do I do
11 now?" You can ' t get out .
12 we ' ve identified that the maximum slope
13 that our trailers and trucks , fully loaded , can handle
14 is about a five percent slope . I ' ll give you some
15 technical information . okay? with a five percent slope
16 and a trailer that ' s nearly a hundred feet long , the
17 driveway would have to be 300 feet long to be able to
18 maintain from 626 feet in elevation at the entrance down
19 to 570 , 580 feet in elevation where the substation pad
20 would be . In order to shorten that driveway , you would
21 have to raise that site approximately 20 feet . okay?
22 we have an obligation to -- we are not
23 Oncor . We are not an investor owned utility . we are a
24 member owned electric cooperative . And we have an
25 obligation to serve our members because our members pay
JILL JOHNSON, Certified Shorthand Reporter
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1 for everything that we do . we do have an objective to
2 serve our members at the lowest possible cost . And
3 we ' ve determined that the lowest possible cost is to pay
4 a little bit of a premium for this site that we ' re on
5 now.
6 There are some grading challenges out
7 there . I will admit that . They ' re not nearly what the
8 challenges are on this site that ' s been identified by
9 Mr . Billingsley and his engineer . okay?
10 I mentioned schedule a while ago. The
11 alternative site that we did propose -- and like I said ,
12 Mr . Billingsley just adamantly dismissed , said , "No ,
13 it ' s no good , " and everybody said okay . we went out
14 there . we looked at it .
15 It ' s a former landfill . It would take
16 extensive soil evaluations . we ' re trying to do in this
17 a week or two . You don ' t engineer in a week or two .
18 We ' d have to take soil samples . we ' d have to analyze
19 what ' s in there from being a landfill . We may have to
20 excavate it . If we do have to excavate it , it ' s an
21 immense amount of removal and refill material . we ' re
22 talking about a project that would take two or three
23 years .
24 So in short , I would contend to you that
25 we have done our homework. There ' s been a lot of
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1 misinformation out there , a lot of communications . I
2 watched your last meeting . we are not telling a lie .
3 Okay? we are not liars .
4 I am the person that wrote the engineer ,
5 Jacob Lewis , at Oncor and had negotiations for the
6 existing site to be out from underneath the 345-KV line .
7 They will not and do not want us to have equipment and
8 facilities in their 345 easements . Okay? The property
9 does extend into the 345 easement , but that ' s as far as
10 it goes . There is no live equipment located in that
11 easement .
12 so we had to adjust that site where we are
13 now down south about 40 feet , which made us -- it made
14 it difficult for us to get our grading done the way we
15 needed to get it done , but we were complying with
16 oncor ' s wishes to be out of the 345 . They admitted and
17 agreed that we could be in the 138 easement . Okay?
18 when you start looking -- and you can look
19 at the Google Earth aerial imagery of the proposed
20 alternative site . It appears from our analysis that
21 those structures over there are approximately 60 feet
22 center to center , 60 to 65 feet from the center of the
23 structure to the center of the structure , which is a
24 full 30 or 40 feet closer together than the structures
25 where we are now.
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1 So you can imagine , if we ' re under the 138
2 line , like -- assuming Oncor would agree to still us
3 being in the 138 line , the indications are that we --
4 they will , we would be much further into the 345 , which ,
5 by the way , is in the middle of a ravine . we would have
6 to literally redefine that entire ravine drainage area .
7 And so the site -- you know, part of
8 the -- if you ' ll pardon me . I ' m getting a really dry
9 mouth because I ' m not a public speaker .
10 on the original site at Josey, the
11 original Josey Substation site at windhaven and Plano ,
12 we ' re doing some pretty fancy grading over there , but
13 it -- as a general rule , everybody knows it ' s kind of up
14 on a hill . So you ' re dealing with watershed issues .
15 okay? You ' re dealing with how you shed the water off of
16 your site .
17 with the site that Mr . Billingsley
18 proposed over at what we call Site Number 5 , we ' re
19 talking about the entire surrounding area draining into
20 a bowl . so now we ' re trying to control both water
21 coming in and water going out . It ' s much bigger of a
22 challenge .
23 So like I said , I would propose to
24 everybody here that we have done our homework. we have
25 an obligation to provide low-cost power to our
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1 cooperative members , and we think we ' re doing that . And
2 we 've determined that the site that we currently own is
3 the optimal place to be .
4 So with that being said , I ' ll answer any
5 questions that need to be said . But I feel like we ' ve
6 done what we -- our diligent duty and what we needed to
7 do .
8 MAYOR MCCOURRY: On two separate
9 occasions we have asked and it was -- it was told at the
10 P&z meeting that it was asked for the engineering study
11 that got you to determine that that was the -- the
12 optimum place to be , as you have put it .
13 MR. HART: Yes .
14 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Again , our attorney has
15 asked you all for that particular study and we have yet
16 to see that study at all . why is that?
17 MR . HART: It ' s not our routine practice
18 to do an actual written study .
19 (Water tendered to Mr . Hart . )
20 MR. HART : Thank you , sir . I appreciate
21 that .
22 It ' s not a routine practice for us to do a
23 written study . we do send experts from both the
24 distribution and transmission fields to the locations ,
25 to ride the rights-of-way along the existing
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1 transmission lines , to identify the sites that are
2 optimal for both transmission , substation location and
3 the ingress and egress of distribution circuits , along
4 with major thoroughfare access for that very large
5 vehicle that I mentioned earlier .
6 A secondary -- a secondary , of course , to
7 that is drainage swales , floodways , floodplains ,
8 archeological sites , just all kinds of different -- all
9 kinds of different routing stipulations that we have .
10 Existing pipelines , you know, things like that that we
11 deal with on a routine basis .
12 Does that answer your question?
13 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Yes .
14 MR. HART: Okay . So I would say that we
15 send our most experienced people out there to -- to
16 analyze sites along that existing right-of-way to find
17 the optimal site that takes into factor those
18 considerations .
19 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Okay.
20 MR . HART: Okay? Anything else?
21 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Question?
22 MR. WADE : The big truck that you talk
23 about --
24 MR. HART: Yes , sir .
25 MR. WADE : -- the hundred-foot-long
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1 truck --
2 what ' s that? —
3 MR. MARKS : Open the microphone .
4 MR. WADE : That ' s your site plan right up
5 there .
6 MR. HART: Yes , sir .
7 MR. WADE : And you bring in that
8 hundred-foot-long truck --
9 MR. HART: Uh-huh .
10 MR. WADE : -- how do you get that
11 hundred-foot-long truck out of there once you get it in?
12 MR. HART: If you ' ll notice , there ' s a
13 rather large buffer zone around the actual equipment
14 location that ' s in the center of the site .
15 MR. WADE : Um-hum .
16 MR . HART: We have to literally drive the
17 vehicle around . That ' s -- that ' s typical of why we need
18 such a large footprint for what looks like a fairly
19 small set of facilities .
20 And if you ' ll allow me , I have a -- I have
21 a photograph of that , if we have a way to display a
22 photograph . It ' s not in electronic format ; it ' s on
23 paper . I don ' t know if you have a way to get it up
24 there .
25 MR. WADE : Yeah , I don ' t know.
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1 MR . HART: I ' ll be happy to pass that
2 around to the Council , if you ' d like. But it ' s --
3 David , what did you say? 40 , 44 wheels?
4 Hundred -- 95 feet long , about 190 , 000
5 pounds .
6 MR. WADE : And that shows up --
7 MR. HART: That shows up --
8 MR. WADE : -- once a year?
9 MR. HART: We use it for routine
10 maintenance , we use it for emergency outages and
11 supplemental support of the site . So it ' s -- you know,
12 it ' s variable . It ' s not there a lot .
13 MR. WADE : Um-hum .
14 MR. HART : But when it is needed , it ' s
15 needed very desperately .
16 MR . WADE : Yeah .
17 MR. HART: And I would say too that these
18 substations -- I ' m not a distribution engineer . I
19 specialize in transmission at substations . But I do
20 know that there is not -- this is not school bus
21 service . We don ' t go to each house and pick each house
22 and we serve just that house .
23 These substation feeders , they overlap
24 with one another . They provide backup to each other .
25 You could have a catastrophic -- I think somebody
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1 mentioned a while ago Communications Parkway . we have
2 what ' s called spring Creek Substation , which is right
3 down the road . I believe Cosery has circuits out of
4 there that feed the general area .
5 And these serve as both alternatives . You
6 have alternative routes . If something happens on one
7 portion of your system , you move it to another portion
8 of your system . You can ' t very well do that if you
9 don ' t have the capacity that ' s needed .
10 For some of the explosive growth that you
11 guys are talking about and experiencing here , you ' re
12 going to have a pretty large demand for load . And so on
13 a hot summer day , if you ' ll remember 2011 when we had
14 droughts , we were peaking at incredible rates . The
15 electrical grid was being stressed . And if you have a
16 problem with a major transformer , you ' re going to hope
17 and pray that that hundred-foot trailer shows up and you
18 get in and out of that station because you ' re going to
19 need your air-conditioner . You ' re going to want it
20 anyways .
21 So I would hesitate to say that any given
22 substation serves any particular house in any particular
23 area only . They back each other up . They overlap .
24 So that ' s -- that ' s kind of a general
25 explanation of how -- you know, those are the objectives
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1 that we try to meet . Those are the things that we take
2 into consideration when we ' re choosing these sites .
3 we ' re not being an arbitrary bully . we ' re
4 not being the big utilities . You know, we ' re just --
5 we ' re doing what we ' re obligated to do . And I do have
6 an oath as a professional engineer to the State to take
7 into consideration the health and welfare of the public ,
8 and I take that very seriously . And I do that when I do
9 my job , and I know my staff does too .
10 So any other questions?
11 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Mr . Marks?
12 MR . MARKS : The site that you said --
13 where was the site that Mr . Billingsley turned down?
14 MR. HART : Mr . Billingsley -- somebody
15 else may be able to help me out here.
16 UNIDENTIFIED: (Inaudible) .
17 MR . HART: I know that we received an
18 aerial view of it .
19 MAYOR MCCOURRY : Number 4 . It was about
20 halfway down Plano Parkway and it was on Plano Parkway.
21 MR. HART: Yes , it was on Plano Parkway.
22 As I mentioned before , we need to avoid because of --
23 because -- there ' s a Tot of reasons . Our financing , the
24 way we ' re financed , the way we receive our loan funds
25 requires us to kind of avoid floodways and floodplains .
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1 So we moved the station out of the floodplain or
2 floodway out to Plano Parkway . And I believe there were —
3 some proposals to run some underground ductwork .
4 You know, we not only take into
5 consideration what Brazos has to do , but we also have to
6 take into consideration what our member Cosery is
7 willing to and able to do . I mentioned before ingress
8 and egress of these distribution circuits is one of the
9 primary factors . we don ' t control that . They control
10 that . That ' s why we meet as a team and we work together
11 to determine these sites . I know that was a major
12 concern with this .
13 Another major concern with this
14 Alternative Site Number 5 , Mr . Billingsley' s property ,
15 down close to this -- or in this ravine , was the ability
16 or the willingness or whatever it takes to get
17 distribution circuits where they need to go . And I
18 don ' t deal with that , honestly.
19 MAYOR MCCOURRY: So you ' re talking about
20 an easement to go north in order to get -- in order to
21 connect up with the Nebraska --
22 MR. HART: I ' d have to defer those
23 questions --
24 MAYOR MCCOURRY: -- service?
25 MR. HART: -- to our member , but I
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1 believe it ' s not just easements but it ' s construction
2 methods and , again , floodways , access , the whole nine
3 yards , all those things . They ' d have to answer those
4 questions specifically , to be quite honest with you .
5 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Okay.
6 MR. MARKS : So what does the outside of
7 your distribution or your -- this facility look like?
8 MR. HART : The outside of the facility , I
9 don ' t know if we have any elevation views . But I do
10 know that part of the SUP -- and some of our
11 right-of-way guys might help us out .
12 But we have a screening wall . we have
13 extensive landscaping , to which I might add we even
14 added landscaping at the request of, I believe , the city
15 engineer , or someone . we actually added additional
16 landscaping . we ' ve met all of the criteria and actually
17 gone above and beyond , to the best of our ability , to be
18 able to provide a solid screening wall with landscaping ,
19 trees , shrubs .
20 MR. MARKS : How tall are the walls?
21 MR. HART: Sir?
22 MR. MARKS : How tall are the walls?
23 MR . HART : I believe they ' re eight feet .
24 There ' s a little bit of a -- it ' s a quandary there with
25 screening walls because the taller they are , the more
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1 beautiful they are , but they also hide people . If they
2 do manage to get over the wall , you can ' t see them .
3 obviously , you can see through a
4 chain-link fence . And I believe the original plan for
5 this site was for a chain-link fence , until -- until we
6 started to get into the SUP process and had to meet more
7 and more and more criteria. So . . .
8 Does anybody else have -- I ' ll be happy to
9 answer your questions because now is your opportunity is
10 to fire at me .
11 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Anything else?
12 UNIDENTIFIED : NO .
13 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Thank you .
14 MR . HART : All right . Thank you .
15 MR. BILLINGSLEY: My name is Henry
16 Billingsley , 6701 Turtle Creek Boulevard .
17 I 've got a couple of things here I ' d like
18 to give you , just as a handout . One of them has
19 three -- three options : the current property that they
20 got through eminent domain and then the property that
21 they ' ve been referring to that ' s just east of the
22 railroad that ' s 10 acres .
23 I met -- I talked to somebody at Oncor
24 today , just as a point of reference . They said in
25 Highland Park they' ve done these things on an acre . In
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1 four acres is a luxury . Four acres is no problem at
2 all . You can do them on two or three . If you look at
3 the existing one that Oncor has , it ' s on about three
4 acres and they ' re just wallowing in room .
5 The site that we were talking about east
6 of the railroad is 10 acres . 10 acres . Half of it is
7 out from under the power lines . The other part is under
8 the 136-voltage power lines that they want to come off
9 of, just like the site that they -- they got through
10 condemnation . So it ' s the same type of thing .
11 The road is McKamy Trail , which is
12 a four-lane , concrete road until the last 200 yards ,
13 which then it ' s. -- it ' s a road that ' s been fixed by the
14 North Texas pumping station people . They have trucks
15 that go down there . I walked it today . And this talked
16 about ravine -- this land is flat . There ' s a ravine ;
17 it ' s beyond the other side of the power lines . And I
18 could fill this room with engineers that can design a
19 substation on that property.
20 So it seems like there are two things
21 here . Any time there ' s a tough question , that ' s an
22 engineering problem , we just can ' t handle that . well ,
23 there are two things : there ' s an engineering problem ;
24 there ' s a finance problem and the impact that this type
25 of thing would have on this entire region .
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1 we ' ve got 1, 500 acres at Austin Ranch . we
2 spend over $300 , 000 a year mowing the medians and the
3 sides of the medians to keep this property looking good .
4 This is the major intersection in Austin Ranch . And
5 with the opening of Nebraska , this is going to be --
6 anybody coming from the south will come up the toll
7 road , cut across on windhaven and go up Plano Parkway .
8 That ' s the quickest way to get there .
9 This is one of the front doors to your
10 city , and to put something like this -- and I might add ,
11 this property is about 25 or 30 feet up in the air . So
12 there ' s no way these things aren ' t ugly , these
13 substations . But if you put it on top of a hill and
14 then to say , "we ' re going to landscape it . " Have you
15 ever seen a hedge or a wall around one of these things
16 that makes it look attractive? There ' s no way you can
17 make this thing attractive .
18 So on one corner here , on the southwest
19 corner , we ' ve got over a hundred million dollars
20 invested in two multifamily projects and we ' re getting
21 higher rents there than anything up on the hill . It ' s
22 absolutely the best multifamily project we ' ve built to
23 date . That ' s right across the street from the
24 substation .
25 on the -- on the northeast corner , we 've
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1 got 25 acres . That will be a retail development .
2 7-Eleven ' s going to locate there and we ' re going to have
3 a number of restaurants . On the southeast corner , we ' ve
4 got a creek there . we ' re going to have a dog park and
5 five or six restaurants there . So on three of the four
6 corners you ' re going to have nice development .
7 Now, we sold 60 acres to Heritage .
8 They' ve put a lot of money into that and they ' re just
9 starting to build three to five hundred thousand dollar
10 houses there . Now, they' re going to be real happy to
11 come out and look at this substation .
12 I think that you people owe to the
13 citizens of this city to stand up and stop this , because
14 you can .
15 They got the property through eminent
16 domain . They didn ' t go and buy it from somebody . They
17 used eminent domain . And for them to come up here and
18 say this is the only site that works , the only site that
19 works , or anything else would cost a fortune .
20 when Cosery was asked to move their
21 substation down the hill , they did it . Now, we ' ve got
22 two sites here . we ' ve got one right next to Cosery --
23 right next to Oncor ' s site , where if they wanted to do
24 the same type of thing that Oncor did , they could do it .
25 They just have to want to be a good citizen .
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1 Or they could go on the other site , where
2 I ' ve been told by people in that business that , because
3 of the seclusion of that site , it doesn ' t bother people
4 as far as seeing it . And it ' s also secluded so it ' s
5 more secure . And it ' s right underneath the power lines
6 that they want and it ' s 10 acres . And if they did that ,
7 they could also take their -- their right-of-way up
8 adjacent to the railroad track up to Nebraska .
9 The other thing we have here is a letter
10 that was sent to one of our engineers today , asking
11 the -- this is -- this is from their engineer , saying ,
12 "You know, we ' re going need to put power poles up both
13 sides of Plano Parkway to get up to Nebraska . so do you
14 have any decel lines -- lanes planned or anything else
15 planned along Plano Parkway because we need these big
16 poles going all the way up to Nebraska , on both sides of
17 the street . "
18 So we ' ve got 1, 500 acres there . And let
19 me tell you , I ' ve been in development 40 years . we ' re
20 in four cities and two counties in Austin Ranch . If
21 people come out there and want to build an office
22 building , do you think they' re going to want to build it
23 across the street from the substation or looking at a
24 big power pole in their front yard , or do you think
25 they ' re going to go to another part of Austin Ranch?
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1 You ' ll end up being the warehouse area of
2 Austin Ranch because they ' re going to make it into an
3 industrial looking area . And that ' s just -- that ' s just
4 human nature . That ' s what people are going to do .
5 They ' re going to go to the best place they can go and
6 get the best deal they can get .
7 Now, I ' ll pass these out and y ' all can
8 look at them . It has three different sites , their
9 current site and two other sites . And here ' s the letter
10 where it ' s full steam ahead . And I ' ll answer any
11 questions any of you have .
12 Let me just add one other point . They can
13 use eminent domain to take the property , but unless the
14 City gives them an SUP , unless you give them the zoning ,
15 they can ' t build it there . So it ' s in your power to
16 stop this if you want to . Thank you .
17 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Thank you , sir .
18 Do you have a question for him?
19 MR . WADE : Mr . Billingsley. Mr .
20 Billingsley , can I borrow you for a second , please .
21 The gentleman that spoke -- the gentleman
22 that spoke before you talked about the area up there on
23 the -- up on that -- on the bluff --
24 MR . BILLINGSLEY: Yeah .
25 MR . WADE : -- on the east side of the
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1 railroad track --
2 MR. BILLINGSLEY: Yes .
3 MR. WADE : -- being a former landfill .
4 MR. BILLINGSLEY: It ' s not a landfill .
5 MR . WADE : Oh , okay . That was -- that
6 was -- and if I remember correctly , that was what we
7 were -- what we were talking about was that area being a
8 former landfill .
9 MR. BILLINGSLEY: No . Absolutely not .
10 I ' ve had that property for 25 years and nothing ' s ever
11 been done on it .
12 MR. WADE : How about the area around the
13 Coserv , the current -- or the current Oncor Electric
14 facility?
15 MR . BILLINGSLEY: Around the current
16 Oncor site , if they went immediately east of that , then
17 they ' d have access both from windhaven because we can
18 let them drive through that or give them an easement
19 from Plano Parkway. So they ' d have access from two
20 directions . They would have to build it up , just like
21 Oncor did .
22 I talked to the fellow that did the Oncor
23 deal today . And he said he built it up and then -- and
24 then it worked . So --
25 MR . WADE : Right .
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1 MR. BILLINGSLEY: -- they can build it up
2 there or the other side is even better .
3 MR. WADE : Right . But there are some
4 floodplain issues . It is in the floodplain .
5 MR. BILLINGSLEY: It ' s low. It ' s low.
6 MR. WADE : It is very low.
7 MR. BILLINGSLEY: Yeah .
8 MR. WADE : And it would look like it
9 would be near the middle of that creek.
10 MR. BILLINGSLEY: The creek -- the creek
11 winds like this .
12 MR. WADE : Correct .
13 MR. BILLINGSLEY: It can be totally
14 rerouted .
15 MR . WADE : Right .
16 MR . BILLINGSLEY: That ' s not a problem .
17 MR . WADE : Right . And , you know, there
18 are engineers that know how to get fill permits and run
19 things through the -- through FEMA to be able to --
20 MR . BILLINGSLEY: It can be done . The
21 fellow that did the one at Oncor told me he ran into the
22 exact same thing , said he had to lift his up . And you
23 can see it if you go out there and look at it , that it ' s
24 lifted up a bit .
25 MR. WADE : Right .
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1 MR . BILLINGSLEY: That can be done . The
2 other site , in my opinion and from asking engineers --
3 MR. WADE : Right .
4 MR. BILLINGSLEY: -- is just a superior
5 site . You don ' t have to do anything . And the ravine is
6 on the south side of -- of the power line easement , so
7 it ' s beyond this property totally.
8 MR. WADE : Correct . I ' m looking at an
9 aerial photograph right now and that ' s --
10 MR . BILLINGSLEY: Yeah .
11 MR. WADE : It looks like most of that
12 ravine could be directly underneath the lines , but --
13 MR. BILLINGSLEY: No .
14 MR . WADE : -- for the most part --
15 MR . BILLINGSLEY: It ' s on the south side
16 of the lines .
17 MR. WADE : A little more on the south
18 side . But , yeah , there is a pretty good sized --
19 MR. BILLINGSLEY: And there is -- there
20 is a sharp turn at the north end -- or at the east end
21 of that road where it comes off of McKamy Trail , then it
22 turns like that and like that .
23 MR. WADE : Correct .
24 MR. BILLINGSLEY: So you ' d have to
25 straighten that out right there .
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1 MR. WADE : Right .
2 MR. BILLINGSLEY: That would probably
3 cost ten , fifteen thousand dollars .
4 MR . WADE : Correct .
5 MR . BILLINGSLEY: And then you can get a
6 train in , let alone any truck .
7 MR. WADE : I was going to say , you could
8 probably take a Carnival Cruise ship and turn it in a
9 10-acre site .
10 MR. BILLINGSLEY: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . If
11 you couldn ' t , you ' d need a new driver .
12 MR. WADE : Yeah .
13 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Mr . Terre?
14 MR. TERRE : Henry , have you had any
15 conversations with the Brazos people in an effort to
16 understand their perception versus your perception of
17 how to make one of these sites work? Have you had any
18 direct give and take as to --
19 MR. BILLINGSLEY: We --
20 MR. TERRE : -- why can ' t we make this
21 work versus their position and your position? Have
22 y ' all actually had any direct communication about trying
23 to figure out --
24 MR. BILLINGSLEY: We met with --
25 MR. TERRE : -- a solution?
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1 MR. BILLINGSLEY: -- the people out here
2 at your place .
3 MR. TERRE : Correct .
4 MR. BILLINGSLEY: We ' ve talked with --
5 MR . TERRE : That was the whole group .
6 MR. BILLINGSLEY: -- a couple of times on
7 the phone .
8 MR . TERRE : Yeah .
9 MR. BILLINGSLEY: And we ' ve been open to
10 talk to them at any time . The only thing we 've heard
11 is , "we ' ve talked to Oncor and they don ' t want to do it .
12 They don ' t want to let us do anything . "
13 Then we talked to Oncor and it was no
14 problem . They were happy to work with them and I feel
15 confident that they ' d get a solution . It starts with
16 asking .
17 MR. TERRE : So -- so you are open at any
18 time to sit down and answer --
19 MR. BILLINGSLEY: I could solve their
20 problem .
21 MR. TERRE : -- objectives and --
22 MR. BILLINGSLEY: I could solve their
23 problem .
24 MR. TERRE : -- issues and --
25 MR . BILLINGSLEY: I mean , these are not
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1 gigantic problems in the -- in the world .
2 MR. TERRE : It would benefit everybody ,
3 obviously, if we could come to an agreement , an
4 understanding of how to do it effectively, in the best
5 interests of everybody involved here .
6 MR. BILLINGSLEY: Yeah . It starts with
7 having to want to . If they want to --
8 MR. TERRE : Want to --
9 MR. BILLINGSLEY: -- they can do it .
10 MR . TERRE : -- and an honest , sincere
11 sit-down to say , "what ' s the problem? And if that ' s the
12 problem , how do we solve the problem? Here ' s what I
13 submit ; that ' s what you submit . How do we --" I mean ,
14 we 've got some smart people around .
15 MR. BILLINGSLEY: Yeah .
16 MR. TERRE : I think we can figure out how
17 to overcome a lot of these issues if we just sit down
18 and apply ourselves to looking for solutions and not
19 reasons to --
20 MR. BILLINGSLEY: Yeah . And I think
21 everybody knows , everybody knows -- you don ' t have to be
22 an engineer -- this is not the only site that would
23 work. Everybody knows that. So it ' s just if you say
24 that site ' s not going to be the one , so where do we go
25 now?
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1 And , like I say , I know normally you have
2 to use condemnation and all the rest . we can trade them
3 for that property for one of these other properties
4 where they -- then they know they ' ve got it , they know
5 they ' ve got their zoning , they don ' t have to lose any
6 time and they can start building .
7 MR. TERRE : And you ' re willing to do that
8 any -- at any time , just a matter of --
9 MR. BILLINGSLEY: Absolutely .
10 MR . TERRE : -- setting up a time and a
11 date to do it .
12 MR. BILLINGSLEY: Absolutely .
13 MR. TERRE : okay .
14 MR . BILLINGSLEY: And we ' re happy to have
15 the city present during all of the meetings .
16 MR. TERRE : Well --
17 MR. BILLINGSLEY: Yeah . If they want to .
18 Just so they ' ll know what ' s going on .
19 MR. TERRE : But again it seems --
20 MR. BILLINGSLEY: Yeah .
21 MR. TERRE : -- like we ' ve got two -- two
22 pieces of a puzzle and somehow we ' ve got to get them put
23 together .
24 MR. BILLINGSLEY: Any other questions?
25 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Any other questions?
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1 MR . BILLINGSLEY: Okay . Thank you .
2 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Thank you , sir .
3 Council -- are there any further
4 individuals wishing to speak for or against this item?
5 All you have to do is step to the microphone , state your
6 name and address for the record .
7 MR. MOORE : Just to clarify , it ' s for
8 both items?
9 MAYOR MCCOURRY: For both items .
10 MR . VANDEHEY: This is Robert Vandehey
11 again , 2257 Carrollton in Austin waters .
12 Since it does appear , and the engineer
13 often mentioned it ' s the optimal zone . Right? It ' s
14 hard to argue with optimal . Right? It is the best ,
15 using their criteria , which probably more than anything
16 is cost . Right? obviously, it ' s got -- there ' s many
17 places where it reaches the power lines , so cost is the
18 issue .
19 So are there -- if the cost is truly the
20 issue , are there creative ways that the City can use to
21 maybe grade the site or do something that makes their
22 cost the same as this other site so that this other site
23 then becomes a more optimal site? Thank you .
24 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Thanks .
25 Any other -- any other speakers for this
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1 item?
2 MR. MARKS : I have another question . -
3 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Sure .
4 MR . MARKS : Mr . Engineer , Mr . Hart?
5 MR . HART: Yes .
6 MR. MARKS : Can I ask you a question ,
7 please? Or may I ask you a question?
8 MR. HART: If I can answer it , I will .
9 MR. MARKS : Well , hopefully. So this is
10 the optimal site .
11 MR . HART : That ' s what our experts have
12 determined , yes .
13 MR. MARKS : So what ' s the next site , if
14 you couldn ' t get that one?
15 MR . HART: We didn ' t write the sites
16 from --
17 MR. MARKS : No . I ' m just saying , it ' s --
18 you know, you ' ve got to be able -- I mean , you guys are
19 a big company . You were going to have to go through
20 eminent domain . If you couldn ' t get that site through
21 eminent domain , if that particular individual didn ' t
22 want to , you know, play the game , what was the next
23 site?
24 MR . HART: I honestly can ' t speak to the
25 land acquisition methods . I just -- we work with a
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1 technical team to determine what the best site is based
2 on criteria of substation and transmission ,
3 distribution .
4 I do want to remind you that this has been
5 going on for about three years . we ' ve been planning ,
6 looking at and designing this site . It ' s all --
7 MR. MARKS : Well , I understand .
8 MR. HART: -- been designed . But I want
9 -- I just want to remind you all that the schedule is
10 now an issue . This thing is past due . To do some of
11 the things you ' re talking about doing are extensively
12 expensive . They ' re -- they take an extensive amount of
13 time , material . And there ' s also some other financial
14 issues that our attorneys have been discussing that
15 haven ' t been bridged yet .
16 MR . MARKS : well , I guess the -- I can ' t
17 imagine that you guys , as big a company as Brazos is ,
18 that you wouldn ' t know of a secondary site or even a
19 third site , when you were trying to do your
20 negotiations . Now, you may not know what it is , but
21 somebody within your organization probably does .
22 MR. HART: (Moves head up and down) .
23 MR. MARKS : But nobody can tell me .
24 MR . HART: All I can tell you is that
25 this site was identified as the optimal site that would
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1 save our -- not save the members money , but obviously
2 meet the goals of trying to provide less expensive ----
3 electrical power , considering the extensive -- you
4 can -- you can simply drive by -- and I would dispute
5 the fact , I have topographal information that that is
6 not a flat site .
7 It is a flat site down at the very
8 narrowest point , that you can ' t even fit a truck in . A
9 large truck like what we ' re talking about , you can ' t
10 turn it around in there . so largely half of that site
11 is reasonably flat but it ' s unusable . The upper end of
12 the alternative site that Mr . Billingsley has proposed
13 has got a 25-foot grade within the first 300 feet .
14 So I 'm not sure what y ' all have been
15 looking at or walking , but I ' ve got topographal
16 information . I have topography maps that show what the
17 gradients are out there , and they ' re very steep .
18 And this whole business about -- keep in
19 mind that that southern boundary stops at that 345-KV
20 line . The 10 acres can include the 345 right-of-way and
21 the ravine and everything else . we can ' t go past that
22 345 line . It ' s an invisible demarcation , which marks
23 off about four -- three or four of those acres that
24 we ' re -- of the 10 that we ' re even discussing .
25 MR. MARKS : Have you ever run into this
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1 type of an issue in other cities?
2 MR . HART: I personally have not , no ,
3 sir .
4 MR. MARKS : Do you --
5 MR. HART: I --
6 MR. MARKS : Are you familiar with any
7 Brazos issues like this before?
8 MR . HART: I can ' t speak to that . You ' d
9 have to probably refer more to one of our -- our
10 right-of-way guys , honestly . I ' m reasonably new in my
11 position , since 2000 and -- what , ' 10 , I guess . so I
12 was in a subservient role prior to that . so I haven ' t
13 had a lot of experience doing what we ' re doing here
14 today. Okay?
15 MR. MARKS : Yeah .
16 MR . HART: I wish I could answer your
17 question better , but that ' s the best I can do .
18 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Other questions -- other
19 individuals wishing to speak for or against this item?
20 Any other questions from Council ? If not ,
21 I ' m going to close the public hearing on both of these
22 items . Council ?
23 MR. MARKS : I ' d like to go into executive
24 session --
25 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Okay .
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1 MR. MARKS : -- speak to the attorney .
2 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Excuse us while we go
3 into a closed executive session pursuant to Texas
4 Government Code , Section 551. 071 , arising out of a need
5 to seek our attorney ' s advice .
6 (Mayor and Council leave the room for
7 executive session . )
8 (Mayor and Council return to room . )
9 MAYOR MCCOURRY: We are still considering
10 5 . 1 and 5 . 2 . The public hearings for both have been
11 closed . Thank you for bearing with us as we had to go
12 into that executive session .
13 Council , with the public hearing closed ,
14 are there more comments or questions that any of you all
15 have? Mr . Terre?
16 MR . TERRE : Thank you , Mayor . I would
17 like to move forward with a motion .
18 MAYOR MCCOURRY: Okay .
19 MR. TERRE : Mayor , I want to preface my
20 motion , however , with some remarks that clarify our
21 position , observations and rationale that would relate
22 directly to this motion tonight . I ' m going to start by
23 giving you nine statements that have application to it .
24 I ' m going to read each one individually.
25 Number 1. This motion , if it passes by a
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1 majority vote of our city Council , is not intended to
2 preclude Brazos Electric from locating somewhere within
3 the city limits of the City of The Colony. The City ,
4 and the surrounding area , needs electricity and we
5 welcome -- I want to restate , welcome Brazos Electric
6 into the city , so long as the location is reasonable . I
7 mean , it ' s -- from day one , that ' s been our position and
8 remains our position .
9 Number 2 . The City of The Colony , as a
10 home rule city , has been entrusted by the state of Texas
11 with certain police powers , including its zoning powers ,
12 and the City Council , as the governing body of the City ,
13 is charged by the city ' s home rule charter to administer
14 these powers in accordance with its good judgment as we
15 consider the health , the safety and welfare of our
16 community . we must also exercise these powers in
17 accordance with the applicable law, and we understand
18 that .
19 Number 3 . Through the City ' s zoning
20 powers and ordinances , the City Council has the
21 authority and duty, most importantly, to inquire into
22 the reasonableness of the manner by which any applicant
23 for any SUP has requested such zoning . The City Council
24 also has the authority and duty to inquire into the
25 reasonable manner in which Brazos Electric has exercised
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1 its power of eminent domain in this instance because it
2 is part of the SUP application process . I truly believe
3 Brazos Electric understands that it has an obligation to
4 comply with the City ' s zoning processes as well .
5 Number 4 . So we have Brazos Electric , an
6 electric utility supplier with certain rights and
7 responsibilities granted to it by state law, on the one
8 hand , and we have the City of The Colony, a Texas home
9 rule municipality with certain rights and
10 responsibilities granted to it by state law, on the
11 other hand . Now, again it ' s my understanding -- my
12 understanding of the law in Texas is that neither
13 authority is absolute , so that one entity ' s authority
14 does not automatically trump the other .
15 Number 5 . In other words , Brazos
16 Electric ' s authority as an electric utility is not
17 without limits , and certainly the City ' s authority as a
18 home rule municipality is also not without limits .
19 Neither entity ' s power is automatically subservient to
20 the other ' s . In the abstract , Brazos Electric ' s use of
21 its powers cannot be unreasonable or arbitrary. The
22 City' s use of its power cannot be unreasonable or
23 arbitrary either .
24 I have read some cases that have been
25 decided in Texas , in both state and federal courts , and
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1 those cases have shown me that lawyers and judges have
2 wrestled with these somewhat competing interests ,
3 especially when a conflict such as this arises . It
4 seems to me that those compelling interests boil down to
5 a determination of reasonableness under the -- all of
6 the circumstances in a particular situation . It is also
7 pretty clear to me that neither Brazos Electric nor the
8 city can abuse its power .
9 Number 6 . From Brazos Electric ' s SUP
10 application , evidence and documents presented to the
11 city, and actions during the time that has transpired
12 when Brazos Electric ' s SUP application was submitted up
13 to now, I believe that Brazos Electric has abused its
14 eminent domain power in selecting this site , the
15 property in question , located at the northwest corner of
16 Plano Parkway and windhaven Parkway . These are two
17 major -- major thoroughfares in our city , just south of
18 the Grandscape Nebraska Furniture Mart development .
19 Number 7 . As part of any SUP application
20 in The Colony , the City ' s zoning ordinance requires us
21 to review and evaluate the application using certain
22 specified criteria . The City ' s staff has prepared a
23 memorandum outlining the staff' s review of the Brazos
24 Electric SUP application , and that memorandum is
25 included in our packet of materials for tonight ' s
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1 meeting .
2 The City Council appreciates its staff' s
3 work and analysis , which takes a lot of time and effort
4 to analyze and prepare . However , the City Council is
5 not bound by staff' s review and opinions , and is charged
6 with deciding this matter based upon the City Council ' s
7 own review and analysis of this SUP application . There
8 is nothingin either the City ' s zoningordinance or in
Y
9 state law that requires us to automatically adopt the
10 staff' s review and report on this matter .
11 Number 8 . In the matter of the City
12 Council -- in the same manner , the City Council is not
13 bound or constrained by the vote of the Planning &
14 zoning Commission when it approved this SUP application
15 by a divided vote . Procedurally that vote was -- was
16 but one step in the process . we , as the governing body
17 of the city , have the final say on this and any other
18 zoning decision . I respectfully disagree with the
19 Planning & zoning Commission ' s vote on the Brazos
20 Electric SUP application .
21 Number 9 . And this will conclude , Number
22 9 , that -- this particular piece of the document .
23 Number 9 . The criteria I mentioned are found in
24 sections 10-905 of the City ' s zoning ordinance . The SUP
25 criteria listed there are issues we are to address in
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1 reviewing and evaluating a Specific use Permit
2 application .
3 Okay . I will address each of these
4 criteria as follows .
5 Number 1. Confer -- Conference with the
6 City of The Colony' s comprehensive plan .
7 The future land use identifies this area
8 as Austin Ranch Mixed Use Development . This proposed
9 substation is not compatible with the Austin Ranch Mixed
10 use Development designation of the City ' s comprehensive
11 plan because the substation is an industrial type use
12 that is not listed in the Austin Ranch development
13 standards .
14 While it appears to be the case that more
15 electricity is needed in this general area of the
16 community because of recent development and new
17 structures , nothing that we have seen or been presented
18 with suggests that this property at the northwest corner
19 of Plano and windhaven is the only site that can work
20 for Brazos Electric ' s needs . The incompatibility of
21 this substation at this location , therefore , means that
22 this SUP application fails to satisfy this criteria .
23 Number 2 . Conformance with applicable
24 regulations and standards established by the zoning
25 regulations .
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1 The need for a special use permit for
2 construction of an electric utility substation is a
3 requirement of the City ' s zoning ordinance . Brazos
4 Electric has indeed submitted its application for an SUP
5 under the City ' s requirements .
6 This criteria , however , does not address
7 the site selection issues that are such a concern to our
8 city. As a result , this criteria does not weigh in the
9 favor of nor against this SUP application .
10 Number 3 . Compatibility with existing or
11 potential uses on abutting sites , in terms of building
12 height , build and scale , setbacks on open spaces ,
13 landscaping and site development , access and circulation
14 features , architecture compatibility .
15 It is true that the surrounding area is
16 mostly undeveloped property at this time , which is one
17 of the reasons I firmly believe that other suitable
18 sites are available in Brazos Electric for this
19 substation . under PD-10 and PD 22 ' s provisions
20 applicable to this area , future developments for
21 commercial , retail and multifamily uses are specified
22 and listed . I understand that Brazos Electric has
23 proposed certain landscaping and screening for this
24 particular substation location as part of its SUP
25 application .
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1 I do not see this criteria weighing in
2 favor of or against this particular SUP application .
3 This criteria will apply to all such SUP applications
4 for an electric substation , and I appreciate Brazos
5 Electric ' s work and the City staff on these issues .
6 Number 4 . Safety and convenience of
7 vehicular and pedestrian circulation in the vicinity ,
8 including traffic reasonably expected to be generated by
9 the proposed use and other uses reasonable and
10 anticipated in this area , existing zoning and land uses
11 in the area . That ' s the title .
12 The subtitle and information relating to
13 that is , it is my understanding that this substation
14 facility is mostly automated and unmanned , with
15 maintenance personnel visiting the site for routine
16 visits or as needed . These realities indicate that
17 there will not be significant vehicular traffic or
18 pedestrian traffic , which certainly weighs in favor of
19 any such SUP application .
20 This criteria will apply to all such SUP
21 applications for any electric substation , but certainly
22 underscores the reality that wherever the substation is
23 located , it will not generate much traffic .
24 Number 5 . Protection of persons and
25 property from erosion , flood , or water damage , fire ,
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1 noise , glare , air quality , generation of dust and odors ,
2 and similar hazards and impacts . That ' s the title . --
3
3 The response : It is my understanding that
4 this substation will be constructed in accordance with
5 applicable City and State regulations , and is certainly
6 not expected to create a worse nuisance-type environment
7 from a noise and dust perspective .
8 This criteria will apply to all such SUP
9 applications for an electric substation , but certainly
10 also underscores the reality that wherever the
11 substation is located , it will be constructed in
12 accordance with applicable regulations .
13 Number 6 . The subject : Location ,
14 lighting and types of signs ; the relation of signs to
15 traffic control and adverse effect of signs on adjacent
16 properties .
17 Pretty quick answer here . It is my
18 understanding that there is no signage being proposed .
19 So that ' s not applicable , Number 6 .
20 Number 7 . Adequacy -- adequacy and
21 convenience of off-street parking and loading
22 facilities .
23 Again , my understanding that no parking
24 diagram or layout has been provided by Brazos with this
25 SUP application , although a development plan (Number
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1 SP14-0022) has apparently been submitted to our City .
2 That development plan is not before the City Council for
3 action at this time . we know it exists , but not part of
4 the action tonight .
5 Number 8 . Determination that the proposed
6 use and site development , together with any
7 modifications applicable thereto , will be compatible
8 with existing or permitted uses in the vicinity .
9 Response : As has been previously
10 mentioned , this area of the community is mostly
11 undeveloped at this time , but more development is
12 anticipated in the near future in the area. Development
13 is governed by PD-10 and PD-22 , calling for commercial ,
14 retail and multifamily uses . The proposed Brazos
15 Electric substation site is not -- is not compatible
16 with those uses because it is not such a use -- because
17 it is not such a use , and it removes from this area a
18 large , viable retail and commercial property at the
19 intersection of two major thoroughfares in the city,
20 making this location a real dead spot that will not be
21 contemplated when PD-10 and PD-22 were enacted .
22 Next paragraph . The growth and
23 development in this area, which I- understand is the
24 reason stated by Brazos Electric to justify the need for
25 a new substation somewhere in the city , will be hampered
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1 and thwarted by this incompatible use of the property .
2 visually , this proposed -- proposed use -- use at this
3 location is -- is awful . I mean , it ' s awful . Coming
4 into the city from Plano , this intersection is a gateway
5 entrance into The Colony , and the first thing people
6 will see is this ugly eyesore of a substation . I mean ,
7 that ' s what they ' ll see .
8 This corner that Brazos Electric wants is
9 a major economic benefit to The Colony . It is an ideal
10 retail location in the city. The adverse visual impact
11 that will be caused by the substation location desired
12 by Brazos Electric cannot be overstated . It can ' t . I
13 mean , you can ' t overstate it . It ' s that -- I mean , it ' s
14 that simple .
15 The City will lose significant property
16 and sales tax revenue here , money that is important to
17 the City Council ' s desires and need to provide for the
18 health , safety and welfare of the community .
19 This criteria weighs heavily against this
20 SUP application .
21 Number 9 . Determination that any
22 conditions applicable to approval are the minimum
23 necessary to minimize -- minimize potentially
24 unfavorable impacts on nearby uses in the same district
25 and surround area .
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1 The substation has been described by
2 Brazos Electric as something that will be located on a
3 higher elevation than the surrounding properties , making
4 the substation farther incompatible with the development
5 plan . If you can ' t say this level , let ' s raise it to
6 another level so it ' s got more visibility.
7 On the screening and landscape proposed
8 for Brazos Electric , they sound nice and it ' s a good
9 gesture . I am definitely not convinced that it will be
10 enough to mitigate the detrimental effect that the
11 substation will have on the community by being located
12 on this particular property .
13 Number 10 . Determination that the
14 proposed use , together with the conditions applicable
15 thereto , will not be detrimental to the public health ,
16 safety , or welfare , or materially injurious to
17 properties or improvements in the vicinity. Okay?
18 The reality is the proposed substation
19 will in fact be detrimental to the public health , safety
20 and welfare of the community in the ways that I have
21 already described . I believe that the proposed
22 substation use of this -- on this property will cause
23 significant -- I mean significant -- economic injury to
24 this area and surrounding properties . It will
25 specifically and detrimentally thwart -- thwart the
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1 future -- prohibit the future land uses that the City
2 has so carefully evaluated and envisioned . It ' s our
3 vision for this area .
4 I do not need to repeat myself here . This
5 criteria weighs heavily against this SUV -- SUP
6 application .
7 From the above analysis , I disagree with
8 the conclusion reached by the Planning & zoning
9 Commission Brazos Electric ' s SUP application meets
10 applicable requirements of the City ' s zoning ordinance .
11 I believe that Brazos Electric ' s SUP application does
12 not -- does not meet the City ' s zoning ordinance
13 requirements , and that belief supports any motion on
14 this application .
15 Number 10 . The most abusive aspect of
16 Brazos Electric ' s desires for this location , and what
17 makes Brazos Electric ' s desires for this site arbitrary
18 and unreasonable , is that it is one of several sites
19 that could be available to Brazos Electric from an
20 engineering and compatibility standpoint .
21 To reiterate , again , this northwest corner
22 of Plano Parkway and windhaven Parkway is zoned retail
23 and is located in one of the city ' s most important
24 development -- developments desirable for retail uses .
25 Brazos Electric ' s substation totally -- I can ' t -- I
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1 can ' t overemphasize that enough -- totally destroys the
2 entire northwest corner and will make it unusable for
3 its intended purposes and destroys a major gateway
4 entrance into our city , The colony .
5 Number 11 . Brazos Electric ' s selection of
6 this site certainly appears to have been arbitrary .
7 Yes , I have heard the reasoning and rationale about why
8 this site at the northwest corner of Plano and windhaven
9 works well , but Brazos Electric has made it clear that
10 this site is not the only place that works for them to
11 be able to increase Brazos Electric ' s electric services
12 capacity . My understanding , instead , is that this is
13 the first site that Brazos Electric selected . They ran
14 with it , not really looking anywhere else .
15 During the last few weeks , our City has
16 discussed different properties , site locations with
17 Brazos Electric in the hope that one of these
18 alternative sites would work . Brazos Electric has
19 admitted that other sites can work from an engineering
20 and electric services standpoint . That ' s just basic
21 common sense .
22 Nothing in what Brazos Electric has
23 submitted or shown to the City proves that this
24 particular site -- again say it , I ' ll say it -- the
25 northwest corner of Plano and windhaven is the only site
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1 that can be used by Brazos Electric for its desired
2 substation from the engineering or service standpoint .
3 To repeat , there are other sites out there . They are .
4 There are other sites out there . I ' ll say it again .
5 There are other alternative sites .
6 The fact that Brazos Electric charged
7 ahead with the condemnation and purchase of this
8 Brazos -- of this northwest corner site should not -- I
9 repeat , should not -- be the grounds for causing the
10 harm and detriment to the city that going forward on
11 this site will cause us .
12 Brazos Electric did not perform its due
13 diligence here , and certainly did not contact the City
14 about options for other locations until we learned about
15 its plans after it had proceeded so quickly . Brazos
16 Electric could have saved us , and themselves , a lot of
17 time and money had they acted more reasonably.
18 The fact that they want our City to pay
19 them for their actions to look at other sites farther
20 underscores the unreasonableness of Brazos Electric ' s
21 actions in regards to this particular site . The
22 selection of this site is simply an arbitrary decision
23 by Brazos Electric , which arbitrariness is exemplified
24 by their admission that other sites could work for its
25 needs .
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1 Based upon the evidence presented , or lack
2 thereof, and in light of my comments , observations and
3 statements that I have just made , I move to make a
4 motion to deny Item 5 . 1 on the agenda , the Specific use
5 application submitted by Brazos Electric for an electric
6 substation at this northwest corner of Plano Parkway and
7 windhaven .
8 And do I also need to identify the other
9 one as well ?
10 MR. MOORE : We ' ll have separate motions .
11 MR . TERRE : Okay . Separate motions .
12 Okay . There ' s a motion on the floor .
13 MR. MOORE : There is a motion . Is there
14 a second?
15 UNIDENTIFIED : Second .
16 UNIDENTIFIED : Second .
17 MAYOR MCCOURRY: A couple of seconds
18 there . We have a motion and a second on the floor . Is
19 there any other comments from Council , questions? If
20 not , Council , cast your vote .
21 (Council votes . )
22 MAYOR MCCOURRY: The motion to deny is
23 approved .
24 On 5 . 2 , Council ?
25 MR . MARKS : I ' ll motion to deny 5 . 2 .
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1 MAYOR MCCOURRY: There is a motion to
2 deny 5 . 2 . Is there a second?
3 MR. WADE : I ' ll second that.
4 MAYOR MCCOURRY: There is a second . Are
5 there further comments , questions? If not , Council ,
6 please cast your vote .
7 (Council votes . )
8 MAYOR MCCOURRY: The motion to deny 5 . 2
9 passes .
10 The SUP, as a result of that vote , is
11 denied in both cases . Okay? Thank you .
12 okay . I ' ll have to say , I think that that
13 is the longest opening --
14 UNIDENTIFIED : Item .
15 MAYOR MCCOURRY: -- item that we ' ve ever
16 had .
17 UNIDENTIFIED : It definitely wants a
18 motion .
19 UNIDENTIFIED : Absolutely .
20 MAYOR MCCOURRY: All right .
21 (End of video recording . )
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1 CERTIFICATE
2 I , Jill Johnson , Certified Shorthand Reporter
3 in and for the State of Texas , do hereby certify that
4 the above and foregoing 92 pages contain a full , true
5 and correct transcription of my shorthand notes of a
6 video recording , as reduced to typewriting by me .
7 Subscribed and sworn to on this day of
8 September , 2015 .
9
10
11
Jill Johnson , CSR 259
12 My commission expires 12/31/16
13 1205 Edgefield Drive
Plano , Texas 75075
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