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HomeMy WebLinkAbout09/23/1996 City Council MINUTES OF THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING HELD ON SEPTEMBER 23, 1996 The Work Session of the City Council of the City of The Colony, Texas was called to order at 7:00 p.m. on the 23rd day of September, 1996, at City Hall with the following Council roll call: William Manning, Mayor Present Bill Longo, Councilmember Present Mary Watts, Councilmember Present David Stanwick, Councilmember Present Wilma Avey, Councilmember Present John Dillard, Councilmember Present Dave Kovatch, Councilmember Present and with seven present, a quorum was established and the following items were addressed: 1. CONSIDERATION OF AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO ENTER INTO A LETTER AGREEMENT WITH CROW-BILLINGSLEY DEVELOPMENT COMPANY ACKNOWLEDGING THE CITY'S ASSESSMENT AUTHORITY WITH RESPECT TO CERTAIN PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS Johnny Smith stated the council had previously authorized an appraisal on the railroad right-of-way, located on the Billingsley property, needed for the extension of Windhaven Parkway. The appraisal has been received and now it is time to move ahead with this project. Mr. Billingsley has presented the City with a letter agreeing that his company will be responsible for all costs involved in acquiring the r.o.w, from Burlington Northern Railroad, and acknowledging the city's assessment authority. Councilman Stanwick asked how the discussions with the railroad had gone and Mr. Smith advised there is still hope for mediation. Mike Griffin is working on this project for the city. Councilman Stanwick asked if we can exchange the existing crossing for the new one and Mr. Smith said that may be part of the mediation. He said he would prefer not to go into much detail since the attorneys are mediating this matter. Mr. Smith noted that the existing crossing has never been closed. Motion to acknowledge receipt of the letter agreement from Henry Billingsley - Avey; second - Longo. City Attorney Pete Eckert, advised that is the proper motion. Councilman Kovatch asked if that means the same thing as accepting the letter and Mr. Eckert said it does. Motion carried with all members voting Aye. 3 2. CONSIDERATION OF APPROVAL OF A RESOLUTION FINDING A PUBLIC NECESSITY FOR THE ACQUISITION OF RIGHT-OF-WAY FOR THE EXTENSION, CONSTRUCTION AND IMPROVEMENT TO WINDHAVEN PARKWAY AND AUTHORIZING THE AT'I'ORNEY FOR THE CITY TO INSTITUTE EMINENT DOMAIN PROCEEDINGS, IF NECESSARY Mr. Smith advised this is the legal step needed to begin the eminent domain proceedings with regard to the right-of-way for the extension of Windhaven Parkway. Motion to approve the resolution, authorizing the attorney for the city to make a final offer not to exceed the appraised value of the property - Kovatch; second - Dillard, carried with all members voting Aye. WORK SESSION ITEMS: These items have been placed on the agenda for discussion at the request of Councilman Kovatch, Councilman Avey and Councilman Stanwick. 3. DISCUSSION REGARDING CITY COUNCIL MEETING PROCEDURAL CHANGES A. Process for selection of agenda items - Councilman Avey said she would like to have the council packets prepared by the Monday prior to the council meeting so she can have more time to review the information. Lengthy discussion followed regarding when packets should be prepared to give the most benefit to the council and also to expedite city business. Mr. Smith and Ms. Hicks explained the current procedures and why the timing works well. They also explained how items get placed on the agenda, who can pull an item and who can ask for an item to be placed on an agenda. The existing resolution sets out the guidelines for preparation of the agenda and when the packets will be prepared. After further discussion, Councilman Avey asked if any of the council would like to see the packet on Monday. Councilmen Longo, Dillard and Mayor Manning want it to stay as it is. Councilman Kovatch would like to see it earlier and Councilman Watts has no problem with the packet being prepared on Thursday, but is concerned when items requested to be placed on an agenda do not show up. Consensus was to leave the packet preparation procedure as it is. Large, complicated or potentially controversial documents and information will be made available to the council as early as possible to allow plenty of time for review. The City Secretary will draft a form for the council to use to request an item be placed on an agenda. B. Action Item Review - Councilman Kovatch said he would like the council to take time at the end of each council meeting to talk about who is responsible for action items. After discussion, the council directed the City Secretary to verbally summarize the action to be taken, etc. at the end of each agenda item. 4 MINUTES OF THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING HELD ON September 30, 1996 The Work Session of the City Council of the City of The Colony, Texas, was called to order at 7:00 p.m. on the 30th day of September, 1996, at City Hall with the following Council roll call: William Manning, Mayor Present Bill Longo, Councilmember Present Mary Watts, Councilmember Present David Stanwick, Councilmember Present Wilma Avey, Councilmember Present John Dillard, Councilmember Present Dave Kovatch, Councilmember Present and with seven present, a quorum was established and the following items were addressed: Mayor Manning said he would like to move this meeting as quickly as we can, and he reminded the council of a motion that can be made when they are sick and tired of debate, and that is to move the question. Moving the question requires a second, it is not debatable or amendable and it requires a 5 out of 7 vote majority so if you get sick of debate make a motion and let's move this meeting along. Councilman Longo stated "Rules at long last". Mayor Manning continued, 'The first item is public safety, Patti put this thing together, thank you, Patti, for trying to give some organization to this. A lot of these things you'll notice we have talked about and if there is not consensus that we discuss this thing I don't see any point in sitting here dwelling over it. We've already been over these things and I don't care to talk about them again. Now I understand why councils in the past had to have a six month waiting period before something could be brought forward. Some of these things I'm not sure if they have been voted on, but if they've been voted on we're not supposed to talk about them again, but I don't think they've been voted on at this point. I personally am tired of going over things repeatedly." 1. PUBLIC SAFETY FIRE DEPARTMENT PARAMEDIC ENGINE Mayor Manning said "Let's talk about a paramedic engine, I know Mr. Longo brought this up, the idea was to spend some money to make that fire engine so that it could respond to calls. Mr. Smith, is there any money in the budget to fund that"? Mr. Smith, "No sir". Mayor Manning, "Let me also make a comment, I'm sorry, to the cOuncil. We talked about doing mid-year review of money left over. Bear in mind that tl~e way our budgets have traditionally been balanced is by staff doing a wonderful job in not spending all the money that has been budgeted to them. If Council, mid-year, takes those savings and decides to spend them, then the balancing of the budget the following year is going to be much more difficult, so we need to bear that in mind and we should not put everything off to a mid-year review just in order to spend the money that may be saved. I'm sorry, go ahead". Mr. Smith said, "Van can tell you what we've done with what we've got, it's a good idea. Mr. Lynch brought this up the first time and Mr. Longo has been instrumental in pushing on it and Van, please tell where we are." Chief Van Morrison said, "Just kind of a brief thumbnail sketch of what we have. On each engine is just a medical trauma box. It does not have cardiac drugs in it. It does not have advanced airway emergency equipment as such, plus the engines don't have defibrillators. We've learned this week from Physio Control that the unit that is probably going to be required for paramedics in the next 3 or 4 years is called a Life Pack 11. It's a lot more expensive than the unit we have right now, which is not manufactured anymore. They now make Life Pack 10. The 10 costs about $9,400.00, the Life Pack 11 is $14,500.00. The engines, as they are, are only basic life support right now and that's the best we could do with the money we had. I know Mr. Longo has been talking to the hospital board, R.H.D. and Trinity, and they may have briefed him, but I am not sure what those plans are, but we are looking at some grant money." Mr. Smith, "What about new engines in the future?" Chief Morrison, "Yes, sir, our concept is that in the future if we have a station built down south of 121, we'd go with the paramedic engine concept running the ambulance out of Central Station. The same up north on Wynnewood Peninsula if we have a station up there, when that becomes necessary." Councilman Watts, "Do I understand that for $16,365.80 give or take a few dollars, we could equip an engine?" Mr. Smith, 'Where is not a plan to put an ambulance in each station (north and south) and that's why the paramedic engine would be ordered with those capabilities." Councilman Watts, "So, if we do that we could essentially be doing the cost savings to the city of tens of thousands of dollars." Mr. Smith, "I wouldn't say that. I would say what it would do is provide a first response capability because you still can't transport. If I get out of line, correct me Van. The engines being the first one on (the scene) could sustain or stabilize until the ambulance arrives. It doesn't mean that we would need to have any less number of ambulances to provide the services needed. At this time the planning had been to dispatch those ambulances out of Central Station." Councilman Longo, "Can I say something, Mr. Mayor?" I got involved in this because Mike Lynch said, way before we put the budget to bed, about a paramedic engine. As a city councilperson, I feel it's my duty to try to provide the best services for the citizens of The Colony. I brought this matter to the City Manager to see whether we could put it in this year's budget and just before we put the budget to bed, I was told I was misunderstood on my request. I sit on the Metrocrest Hospital Authority Board. I meet once every month with the board of directors who handle Trinity Medical and R.H.D. I brought to their attention more than once that The Colony has pumped almost $500,000 into Trinity Medical just on emergency runs alone. The reason why I've come up with that figure, is that rule of thumb, one emergency run is a thousand dollars and if you notice I've also included our ambulance runs for 3 months. I've been keeping strict tabs on how many runs The Colony makes to Trinity Medical and I have not been quiet about telling those people down there that for the amount of money The Colony pumps in their area, they shouldn't sell The 4 Colony, or put them on a short stick, because,their future lies in The Colony. The reason why I wanted this paramedic engine is that during the daytime, if that ambulance leaves the city and goes to the hospital on a run, it could be gone 2 - 3 hours. I've been told that by fire personnel. I've been told the fire engine equipped as a paramedic engine could provide life support until a mutual aid ambulance arrives. That's the reason why I went ahead and did a lot of research into this paramedic engine concept. I think if you turn around and you check with other dties, you'll find almost all their cities are paramedic equipped engines. So let's face it, during the daytime you don't have the support of the volunteers, or your paid firemen or paramedics, if the ambulance is out of the city at Trinity or Presbyterian, all you have in the city now is a fire engine and on that fire engine, you have paramedics. Why don't you give them the equipment to help save someone's life? Now the Chief has mentioned Life Pack 10, which we have on our engines. It's old. That Life Pack 10 is a 3 lead heart monitor, meaning if I'm suffering from a heart attack, you put 3 leads on me and you monitor my heart. The Life Pack 11 is 12 leads, it gives the paramedic a better reading on your heart condition. That's why we're talking Pack 11. The question was 12. If we buy Pack 11, we will put it on our first ambulance and we will transfer Life Pack 10 over to the engine which is 471. I have talked to Charles Heath, Tom Cassiday who operates Trinity Medical and R.H.D., Dedman Hospital, they don't like to use that word Dedman. And it looks like, if there's not a legal question involved, that they will supply the Fire Department with a Life Pack. The amount of money I talked to them about was $12,000 because that's the amount that was given to me that we would have to spend for that piece of equipment. When I talked to the firemen and said this one item, I get a list like this which is $16,365.80. I was told we just needed one item, approximately $12,000. I'm very upset, very upset because I've taken the time to try and do something for the department and the city and somehow or another the ball was dropped on prices. I was told engine 471 and 472 is almost, almost a paramedic engine except for one item. I have found out recently 471 and 472 are not almost a paramedic engine, they need $16,365.80. I've been told instead of Trinity giving the City Council the $12,000, request Trinity to purchase this piece of equipment through their purchasing agency and they may get 15, 10 - 15% discount which the city would not receive, plus the city would have to go out to bid because it's over $5,000.00. That's my feelings towards the way this paramedic engine has been handled and it's not been because of my lack of effort. It's been for lack of communication on somebody's part. And to be honest with you I am sitting here biting my tongue over it and that's all I'm going to say on that. Trinity Medical, if it is not a legal problem, will come up with $12,000 to help equip this engine, but I've also been given a low ball. I was told $12,000 and we may have to come up with a couple thousand dollars more. That's your decision to make. This is as far as I'm going with it." Councilman Dillard, 'Whis is just a comment, when you look over this list, and you take out the cellular phone, you are talking about disposal medical items that are normally carried in a medical bag. I wouldn't be concerned about that, it's pocket change. They are constantly running out." Councilman Longo, "I understand". Councilman Dillard, "Let me ask the Chief something, what would they do with a cellular phone'? They've got a radio, they've got a cellular phone, they've got a two way walkie talkie". Chief Morrison, "We use the cellular phOne as a back up. They have a medical radio, the cellular is a back up in case the radio goes down." Councilman Kovatch, "Is there one in the engine now"? Chief Morrison, "A cellular, no." Mayor Manning, "Have you had an opportunity to look at this list"? Chief Morrison, "Yes, I have". Mayor Manning, "Was it brought through you"? Chief Morrison, "Yes, a couple of days ago, Friday, Thursday or Friday, I don't recall". Mayor Manning, "Do you agree with what's on this list"? Chief Morrison, "I do. One thing, when the subject first came up, back in the old days when we first got started with paramedics, all of our cardiac drugs and respiratory medications that were carded in a supply box ........ A big part of the difference in the cost is for drugs, about $2,000.00. We don't keep extra supplies in the house. We're talking about morphine, Valium, etc. We just don't stock that. We have to, as often as they expire, at least once a year, have to replace those at our cost. That's a big expense." Councilman Watts, 'Whe Pulse-ox Monitor is not medication and it's $600.00. The adult trach is $124.00, the pediatric is $100.00. Those are your big dollar items. If you drop down to the..." Councilman Kovatch, "I guess my question is if we get the big dollar item out of the way, surely we can find the money to do the rest of it." Councilman Watts, "the pulse-ox monitor is a pretty important piece of equipment and 600 bucks .......... and when you're talking about a fire victim, that's crucial information". Councilman Kovatch, "No, I mean, I'm talking about, I wasn't talking about delaying it, I was talking about, if we can get the medical center to donate their portion for the Life Pack, even if it's only $12,000, then I think the rest of it is a small price to pay". Councilman Longo, "I've been told as of today, that Trinity holds this piece of equipment through their purchasing agent, instead of $14,500, we may be able to pick it up for $12,000 or 13 at the most. And for the rest of the equipment required on this list, $2,500.00 more from the city would equip this 471, our new fire engine as a paramedic engine. That's as of today. I don't know what tomorrow may bring. But what I'm saying is Trinity Medical most likely will go pick up the high dollar item and the city will have to come up with $2,500.00 to fill out this other wish list, so to speak." Councilman Stanwick, "Quick question, what's the ball park figure, aren't there more medical emergencies than fire emergencies?" Chief Morrison, "65%." Councilman Stanwick, "So that means the majority of calls that you go out on are medical emergencies." Councilman Longo, "And they are increasing." Councilman Watts, "What's our procedure here? Do we make a motion to put this on the next agenda? We can't take action on it." Mayor Manning, "No, we can't take action. If there is a consensus we want to do this, my opinion is we need to wait and see what Trinity is going to do before we can really do anything, if we don't know what the figures are. As soon as we know what action they are going take, then we can make a decision whether we are willing to spend additional funds are not." Councilman Longo, "I can live with that, I just wanted it out in the open, on the table." Mr. Smith, "It's been out in the open since day one." Councilman Longo, 'I don't think so Johnny." Mr. Smith, "I do." Councilman Longo, "I don't." Mr. Smith, "Mayor may I speak?" Mayor Manning, "Yes." Mr. Smith, "I think when this thing first came up from Mr. Lynch you asked me to look at this with the Fire Chief and see what we thought. It went through the budget process, you had the same right during the budget process to put this in there if you wanted to make it priority then as you do now. We looked at it, the Chief looked at it. We agree. We dOn't disagi:e6 with anything you're saying. It's just priority about where money is going or what you want to put the money into. We looked into the future of what we are going to purchase. I reported to you that we were going to order that when the new engine came along and that we would do what we could in the meantime. Who you talked to in the Fire Department, if you have been going down talking to firemen around and outside the Chief, I can't be responsible for what you are being told. The Chief was not aware you were doing this until after the fact and I don't think he can be expected to respond other than that way." Councilman Longo, "No, let me say something, I came to you before the budget went to bed. I talked to you more than once. I waited for your reply. I never received any reply that you were talking with the Fire Chief or anybody else in this city. I'm sorry, the last time I talked to you, you looked at me, and you said, well, I misunderstood you. As far as I'm concerned I was getting the run around, that's why I put it on here, and I'm not going to listen to anything else, but what you told me, I think. I misunderstood you. There's no way you could misunderstand me when I'm trying to get something done on a paramedic. And as far as who I go down and talk to, I go down there and try to find the information that I need. And I went through channels, I went through the right person that was supposed to be giving me the information. And if you want to throw it out on the table, this damn list right now is bull ! Because there's drugs on this list that are not here. I mean there's drugs missing from this list, so what I'm saying is there's information, that's not coming to you or you're not giving it to me or any councilperson." Mr. Smith, "I've never seen this list before." Councilman Longo, "Because I can't deal with you". Mayor Manning "Bill, Bill, Mr. Longo, juvenile actions like slamming things down will not be tolerated." Councilman Longo, "Alright, don't tolerate it." Mayor Manning, 'Wry to control yourself, please sir." Councilman Longo, "You talk about communications, when you go to the man that's supposed to .... "Mayor Manning, "Mr. Longo, if you want to stick to the issue, fine, if you don't, you can excuse yourself from the meeting. Ms. Watts". Councilman Watts, "I'm still clear as to the procedure, but if Trinity Medical or R.H.D. needs to take some action, I would like to see a letter written acknowledging their offer and our interest in pursuing whether that is legal or not and their direction to us as to how to make this happen. I'd like to see it in writing". Mayor Manning (to Smith) "Do you care to make contact"? Mr. Smith, "I'd be glad to. Mr. Longo has been the one carrying the ball on this and getting the information and I'll be glad to do what we can do to get the job done, which is what we are trying to do. And I don't think the project should be decided on and developed without going through the Fire Chief and the folks in his department. If we can get the donations and we can equip the engine that we've got now, with the funds that are available to us, we'll be glad to do it. I don't know what else to say." Councilman Watts, "My frustrations are again, two years ago there was constant conversation about council being nit picking and taking action for themselves, so on and so forth. And I agreed with that as a citizen sitting out there watchihg how things operated, and you well know that Johnny, because I came and talked to you about it. Now I feel like on requests that I make if anything is going to be done on them, it's done by me. I have asked that things be' done." Mayor Manning, "Are we talking abou(khe paramedic engine here, because if we're not, we need to move on?" Councilman Watts, "Indirectly, yes." 006190 Mayor Manning, "No ma'am, stick strictly to the paramedic engine because what you are talking about is not on the agenda and I'm not going to do it tonight.. We're going to get through this meeting and we're not going to vary from the subject that is here. ff this is about the paramedic engine, go ahead, if it's in general, please don't." Councilman Watts, "Specifically about the paramedic engine. As a councilperson, I am sorry that it took a councilperson to make this happen". Councilman Avey, "I recall during budget work sessions that this was brought up." Mayor Manning, "I recall that it was brought up too and I don't recall that there was a consensus of the council to move forward with putting it in the budget." Councilman Avey, "I don't think council was asked that." Mayor Manning, 'What's your opinion." Councilman Kovatch, "I don't remember the consensus part, I don't even remember this coming up, but it probably did. All I'd like to know is, (a) is if the appropriate arrangements can be made with Trinity, is there consensus for us go forward and do this, yes or no?" Mayor Manning, "If they're going to foot the bill for 80 or 90% of it, I think we would really be foolish not to go forward with it. How does everybody feel about that?" Councilman Avey, "I feel if no matter if Trinity does it or not, we should still go after it." Mayor Manning, "Well, that's another question." Councilman Kovatch, "Well, if they don't then bring it back before us and figure out where the money is going to come from." Mayor Manning, "We need to wait to find out what they are going to do and then we take action appropriate thereafter." Councilman Watts, "My concern with that is several things during the budget process got put off for 6 months. Now the budget has been voted on and you started this meeting by saying those things that got put off are really going to cause a lot of difficulty and probably we shouldn't mess with the money that staff saves, so I feel like I was put off on the budget for 6 months and now we're saying again, if Trinity doesn't do this, it may get put off again." Mayor Manning, "Chief, how many people have you lost, how many lives have you lost because there's no set up on your fire engine." Chief Morrison, "None sir." Mayor Manning, "Why don't we have fire engines in everybody's house and staff and paramedics and then we won't have any risks." Councilman Watts, "Mr. MaYOr, I suggest that you take your own comments to Mr. Longo at heart." Mr. Smith, "Again, this is making priority decisions, and if you look back, no more than two and a half years ago, with fire trucks and ambulances, we've come a long way. We could like to further, we would like to put on more firemen, more paramedics, ambulances. It's just not there financially. It wasn't there, we set priorities, we went through committee meetings. Now I can be accused of not doing my job, that's fine, but I can't read minds, I can't set priorities, it was discussed in budget work shop and because one elected official brings something up doesn't mean that everything is supposed to be dropPed, because in that case, we would never get anything done because of just the nUmber of requests for information that we get on a regular basis. Don't think staff would not like to have paramedic equipped engines. We would like to add two more policemen. We sat and talked over, could we afford one CSO and what we would like to have and what I'm concerned about balanced budget at the year end is what I have to recommend to you. Again, if you give us direction, we'll get it done, one way or the other." Councilman Watts, 'Td like to commend Mr. Longo for pursuing this and working with Trinity and R.H.D. to make it happen without funds from the city." Councilman 8 00819 .' Longo, "I don't want to be commended, I just wanted something out on the table, one elected official went to the city manager and said to the city manager about paramedic engine, how can we accomplish paramedic engine? City Manager said to the elected official, I'll work on it. Said city official did not pursue it, did not bug him, just kept waiting for a response. Finally, said city official said to the city manager about the paramedic budget because we were almost putting the budget to bed, I misunderstood you. That's it, that's what happened and that's the way it's going down. I went and did it the right way. I went to the City Manager. The city manager says he'll 10ok into it, he came back and he said quote "I misunderstood you, when we bid the new fire engine we will bid it with paramedic equipment." I was not talking when we go to the next engine, I was talking about 471. The city manager told me 471 and 472 were almost the equivalent of a paramedic engine. I don't like my words distorted or twisted around. I talked to the city manager on the 23rd, I told the city manager that it looks like Trinity will pick up $12,000 for this piece of equipment that was needed for 471 and I also said something else to the city manager that Trinity might do if they get enough information, so I never kept the city manager in the dark. That's it, now we'll drop it." Mr. Smith, "For the record, I don't agree." Mayor Manning "Does it seem appropriate then that we wait to see what Trinity Medical does and we bring it back up after we find out what they do?" Councilman Avey, "Is that what Trinity has asked for, for us to take action?" Councilman Longo, "trinity was talking to me, not to the city manager, because I sit on the Metrocrest Hospital Board. Trinity came out here to talk to me. And Trinity wanted to know what they could do. The negotiations are between Trinity and I, not Trinity and the city manager. They won't even return his calls. Now, you want him to talk to Trinity for $12,000 be my guest." Mayor Manning, 'Well you what, I'll take it up and I'll talk to Tom Cassiday. I've known Tom for some time. I'll just take it from here. How about we move to the next item. We've already spent thirty minutes on one." CHIEF'S VEHICLE Mayor Manning, "What are we talking about here, Chief'? Chief Morrison, "It wasn't approved in the budget. Tony and I have talked a little bit about finding some money." Tony Johnston, Finance Director, 'Whe question is here, when, what and how much." Councilman Stanwick, "I thought we were going to auction off police vehicles and use that money to offset the cost the fire chiefs vehicle. Are we not going forward with that?" Mr. Johnston, "Yes." Councilman Kovatch, "I thought that was the proposed idea." Councilman Stanwick, "Well, that's what I mean, that was the proposal. I would assume we would pursue that." Mr. Johnston, "And at that point, Mr. Kovatch had asked, at that point when we decide what, how much money we've got and what kind of vehicle we are going to get, at that point we would bring it up. Right now, we have bought 5 vehicles. Those vehicles (old) will be for auction, or whatever decision we need to make with them. Bill is this one of your questions, or who had asked that question?" Councilman Longo, 'What's my question. I wanted to make sure that we take steps to provide the fire chief with a new vehicle. Everybody else seems to get new vehicles around here and here's a department head who 9 006 !9o interacts with other cities and he can't talk to them over a radio. Again, a city council person has got to get involved in something that should be done by city staff." Mayor Manning, "I really believe that if the staff felt like the chief needed a new vehicle that they would bring it forward, if they felt that was a priority item, they would bring it forward. I don't see why you feel like you need to run to the rescue of the fire chief for a new vehicle, Tony, how much money will we need for whatever we get." Tony Johnston, "Well, he decides what kind of model and, at one point in time if, a vehicle that's like an Explorer or a Bronco, the Fire Chief had mentioned about an Explorer because the back door completely opens up where he can put a lot of radio and emergency equipment in the back, but that was just a thought that came across. What really hits here is how well we can sell vehicles with money to buy him a vehicle. So one of the thoughts that I had was to separate the vehicles and sell them in an auction like, for instance, Plano, Addison, one of the bigger towns that brings in a lot of people and then that way I can get the top dollar items from that. Carrollton just had their auction this Saturday. It was too fast for me and so I'll look around to see what the other cities have as far as an auction." Mayor Manning, "Van, I won't embarrass you any further, but if we ever auction those cars off, is buying a car for the Fire Chief the top priority idea we have for that money in the city?" Mr. Smith, "From the budget work shop the fire chiefs vehicle was a part of the list that was considered to begin with and the list was pared down along with at that time the city manager's vehicle. Those two were taken out and it was said that with savings left over from the equipment replacement fund and with the sale of the auction items we would then come back and look at the amount of dollars and come back and poll the council for replacing the chiefs car at that time." Councilman Avey, "You say to, to put the money, sell the cars, and put the money into the chiefs vehicle. We have another vehicle that we planned on purchasing in the budget. Why is it we do not use that money to purchase .............. and spend the money for things we truly, truly need?" Councilman Kovatch, "Was there enough money for 6 vehicles?" Mr. Smith, 'q'here was, and we asked to hold off on buying the investigator's vehicle until January, and that money, there would still be some left in the fund from there and that's what the direction was in the budget." Councilman Avey, "Did, did the money that fell into, that was put into the vehicle replacement fund, was that in the General Fund, Utility Fund?" Mr. Johnston, "General Fund." Councilman Avey, "So, in other words, we put that extra $16,000 - 17,000, whatever it was, back into the General Fund and use it in areas where we need it." Mr. Smith, "Yes, ma'am, we could." Councilman Avey, "S6, for a vehicle, if we were to purchase a vehicle for the chief then we would not actually be spending any additional money which council agreed to." (Further statements from Avey, but could not be heard clearly on the tape, so could not put them into the minutes) Councilman Avey, 'Then the vehicle replacement fund is only for police vehicles." Mr. Smith, "No ma'am, the schedule of six came from the schedule that the chief just updated and provided to the city council. It shows the replacement program for the .Police Department as it grows and other vehicles outside of the Police Department would be separately budgeted, approved and paid for by council." Councilman Avey, 'Through the vehicle replacement fund?" Mr. Smith, "Or the budget process. The vehicle replacement fund was set up when the auditors balanced our accounts and Tony came forward and said we had $130,000. $100,000 went to our equipment fund and the other $30,000 went to 10 Senior Citizen Center activities. That's how the fund came to be." Mr. Johnston, "Bill, if I may interject, just so I know that the communication is going through. In the budget process, one of the thoughts that was mentioned was that the best vehicle that was relinquished from police would go to the Recycling Coordinator. So I am in the process of identifying what the best vehicle there is and coordinating that the individual drives that car. Am I correct in understanding that, because that makes 5 cars (to be auctioned)." Chief Joe Clark, "Actually that leaves 4 cars until January 1." Mr. Johnston, "I'm thinking and I've gone over there with Don Owens and Janice and we've identified a car for her and I'm preparing a letter as a matter of fact to send to you all as to how we decided on that car and also to let you know that she is getting that car as of tomorrow. Is that appropriate?" Councilman Kovatch, "I was just going to ask that we get Janice to challenge the Frisco Recycling Coordinator in a drag race cause I imagine that's going to be a 427 isn't it"? Councilman Avey, "I may be just totally wrong on this but it seems that when we have discussions, there's nothing, just like he asked, nobody responds, so he walks away thinking everything is O.K. There is actually no verbal consensus." Mayor Manning, 'What was my understanding of our consensus when it was brought up several weeks ago." Councilman Avey, "O.K., what I would like to do is to see it in writing, so that I know." Mr. Smith, "It has been in writing, I believe we provided it before, during the budget, as to where it was going, because that was the direction from a budget work shop." Mr. Johnston, "I think it'll be in the minutes." Mayor Manning, "Go ahead and make sure that's done and let's try to stick with the Chief's vehicle. What are we going to do, Johnny?" Councilman Dillard, "What exactly do you want Chief?" Chief Morrison, "I had proposed in the budget a utility vehicle of some sort that I could set up as a command vehicle. The vehicle I have now gets me from point A to point B very well. Mr. Owens and his crew have done an excellent job of keeping it going. We do have maintenance problems from time to time, but it's an '89 model vehicle. Rather than go for something lesser than what I had originally proposed, I can live with it for a year and I appreciate council's concern. But if it's a sedan as opposed to a utility, I would prefer to wait for a utility, but it's not my decision to make." (discussion, I could not understand, too many voices) Chief Morrison, "I need something that I can carry things in. It does not have to be gold plated." Mayor Manning, "How much will we get for those old police cars?" Mr. Johnston, "Bill, I don't know. On auction they can go for $3,000.00 or they can go for $300.00." Mayor Manning, "I don't anticipate that you're going to get enough money out those 4 vehicles, or even 5, to fund the kind of vehicle that you prefer. Councilman Kovatch, "I guess, one question, do you have any idea when the auction will take place, time frame?" Mr. Johnston," I don't, I'd say 60 days or less." Councilman Kovatch, "I guess what I would ask then it sounds like Tony is proceeding along fairly, a good plan of action and just ask that within 30 days of the auction, that he comes back and presents us with a report on what his recommendations are and we go from there." Councilman Avey, "I'd like to ask the Chief how often in a year do you have a need for a command vehicle?', Chief Morrison, "Any time we have a working fire I'll set up a command post, how often?!' (I could not hear the next few comments) The general discussion was about putting the chief's current vehicle in the auction. How long could the chief go without 'a vehicle. Councilman Kovatch, "We're committed so to speak." 11 Mayor Manning, "David had a thought that we wait until we see what Tony comes up with on the auction." Councilman Stanwick, "Can we go out for bid and even though we don't necessarily have the funds, put together a bid package so we can see what our costs will be. We won't be committing to anything but we will have a guaranteed price for 30 or 60 days and if we decide not to buy it, we're not obligated to buy it." Mr. Johnston, "David, what we were going to do is, at that point, decide either the State contract or something where we can get a good reasonable price and then find out how much is available for funding and if we're out of whack then, at that point, re-think our thoughts.M Councilman Stanwick, "You can get a basic Ford Explorer or even a small Ford Bronco, basic package, no bells and whistles for about $14 to $16,000. And you can go for a '96." Mr. Johnston, "Van had mentioned that, maybe that would help get that price down." Councilman Avey, "You're not going to go and get bids now are you?" Councilman Kovatch, "I am going to be perfectly blunt, sorry for interrupting, but I don't have time to go over whether they buy a '96 or a '97. To me that's what these guys get paid to do." Councilman Avey, "Well,.I just know that due to Councilman Dillard's question and comments about one meeting I came out with a misunderstanding, I just wanted to make sure that what Councilman Stanwick was saying is not going to prompt staff to go out get bids and purchase the vehicle." Councilman Stanwick, "All the bid does is tell us the price. It does not obligate us to anything." Councilman Watts, "I would like to thank the chief for saying he is willing to wait for a year if that is going to get him better assurance that he is going to get what he needs and so perhaps this whole discussion gets put off until next budget year. If that's agreeable to the chief and his vehicle is not causing him any grief, it's doing what he's needed for the last 5 or 6 years. We need to take a consensus." Mayor Manning, "Does everyone agree to that.9'' Councilman Avey, "I agree." Mayor Manning, "Silence is agreement, but I still want to hear what you find out at auction." Councilman Watts, "I have plans for that money". Discussion about order of addressing other items. POLICE DEPARTMENT CREATE RANK OF CORPORAL Mayor Manning, "Bill, this is yours again." Councilman Longo, "Again, said city official went to said city manager and talked to him about the possibility of maybe creating the rank of corporal in the police department to sort of build up morale in the police department, and, since it is a small department and promotion is very, very limited. As of this date I have not heard if the city manager talked to the police chief, whether the police chief agrees. I don't know, I just turned around and I mentioned it to him and I waited for a response and I don't have a response so maybe tonight I can be enlightened. That's the reason why it's on this agenda." Mr. Smith," I discussed it with the chief, and got the.chiefs feelings on it and again reported back to Mr. Longo what the chief and I had talked about, a verbal conversation." Councilman Longo, "No, you did not, no you didn't, I'm sorry,, you did not, you did not, you did not! I kept hearing the Mayor saying that council.takes up staffs time by going back and asking and asking and I turned around and I sat down. I 12 brought something to your attention and I waited for a response and I have not received a response as to whether it's a good idea or why it's not a good idea. I have heard nothing about it, sir, and I'll drop dead? Mayor Manning, "Mr. Longo, why does everything have to be confrontational with you?" Councilman Longo, "Because the man makes a statement and it's untrue, I'm sorry." Mayor Manning, "I see, so he's a liar, Johnny's a liar?" Councilman Longo, 'Where's no way you can tell a person he's a liar and let them like it. In other words, he's telling me that I am a liar by saying that I did not hear him tell me. The last thing I heard from the city manager...." Mayor Manning, "Mr. Smith, if you have any response to Mr. Longo you put it in writing. You, gentlemen, somewhere are mis- communicating." Mayor Manning, "But, I don't know why it is you have to be confrontational, Mr. Longo." Councilman Longo, "Well, you tell the man over there ....... " Mayor Manning, "No sir, you quit your attitude ...... "Councilman Longo, "I have a very good attitude, he turns my attitude. He does, by saying he told me that he had a conversation, no way, Mr. Mayor." Mayor Manning, "Chief, is there any need for corporal?" Chief Clark, "No sir." Mayor Manning, "Is there any support amongst council to create the position which will, by the way, lead to further salary increases." Councilman Dillard, "We have to approve something of that nature?" Mr. Smith, "This is not an area we discussed in the Personnel Committee." Mayor Manning, "Is there any support to create the rank of corporal?" Councilman Avey, "I'd like to see something on it." Mayor Manning, "O.K., would you like to create the rank of corporal, even though the chief says it's not necessary?" Councilman Watts, 'What's not what she said." Councilman Avey, "I'd like to see something on it. I understand why he says no it's not needed, why would it be. Mr. Longo said it would help with morale because they are stagnate for promotion and if this will help morale and it's not real costly I'd like to consider it." Mayor Manning, "How's your morale, Chief?." Chief Clark, "Last time I heard it was pretty good." Councilman Avey, "Well, we may not hear everything." Councilman Avey, "I would like to have a consensus and there's two councilmen I haven't heard from. I don't know if this is something everybody wants. So I ask, is there anybody else that supports it, I do." Mayor Manning, "Is there anyone else who supports this?" Councilman Dillard, "If the Police Chief doesn't see a need, then why should we do it?" Councilman Kovatch, "I agree." Mayor Manning, "Does anyone else want to see it?" Councilman Watts, "Creating ranks in the Police Department is that something that our Personnel Committee has to be, does it have to go through the Personnel Committee?" Mayor Manning, "Generally, it would." Councilman Watts, "Has this gone through?" Mayor Manning, "No." Councilman Watts, "In my opinion, since a Councilmember brought the subject up it .should have been discussed with the Police Chief and the Fire Chief or whomever is involved in the Personnel Committee and a response given to council as to their recommendation." Mayor Manning, 'Whe first I heard about it was here." Councilman Watts, 'What's part of my problem as a councilperson, is it's the first I heard of it too, but at any rate I think it should have gone to the department head and to the Personnel Committee and a recommendation come back." Mayor Manning, "You know when I bring an idea to staff and they tell me that they don't think it's a good idea and they explain to me why, I don't see why they need to tell everybody else why it's not a good idea." Councilman Watts, "I just like to know the ideas of other people on council, like I like to know the ideas of citizens." Mayor Manning, "Is there anyone else who supports this? I 13 don't see that we have a consensus amongst council to support creation of this rank, let's move to lake safety." Mayor Manning, "I think this was David's". Councilman Kovatch, "Yeah, my question, basically, I'd like to see some kind of briefing on how well the Sheriffs department performed this on our portion of the lake and whether or not we still have a problem. I mean, I would much rather see the Sheriff's department handle it, take care of it, than we to expend any manpower or money or that kind of thing, but if it's not getting done, that's a different story. We still have Stewart's Creek and Hidden Cove are still a part of us and if it's not getting done, then we need to step I think and deal with the situation if the Sheriff can't or won't or whatever the situation is. I'd just like to know how we're doing. I don't have if we can have a formal briefing in 30 days or something, you know since the season is over and find out how things are going." Councilman Dillard, I had a talk with the Sheriffs wife two week-ends ago. I don't think they had any problems at the Sheriffs Department. (could not hear all his comments) Councilman Kovatch, "I'd also like to get the Colonel over at the Corps his opinion, whether he thinks the safety has improved." Councilman Watts, "As chairman of the Lake Safety Committee, this year has been an anomaly, I mean there's no way to say any effort on the Sheriff's side or even our bicycle patrols has had any impact one way or the other. There's just no way to use this year as a yard stick or a rule of thumb to determine lake safety. It's something that's got to stay high on the agenda and I won't back off on a patrol boat. I think it's essential. I think more development that we have out there the more necessary it is going to be. But, any numbers on what transpired this year will not tell us. anything." Councilman Kovatch, "Well, I guess to my view point we need a place to start and if comes back this year that we don't have a problem that doesn't necessarily mean that we won't." Mayor Manning (to Chief Clark) "Can you get a report for us?" Chief Clark, "Yes, sir. Excuse me Mayor, does that involve our police department?" Mayor Manning, "Absolutely." Chief Clark, "I need to know how you expect to measure efficiency in the Sheriff's department, because I don't know what I'm supposed to check on to measure whether they were efficient. I don't have any way to prepare a report on that." Councilman Kovatch, "Well, I guess there are two things that I know, the water is down, and that has affected it, but has that made it more dangerous, have more people been getting hurt? We know they always talk about it being the 4th busiest lake in the State or whatever, how do they know that?" Chief Clark, "If you're talking about demand characteristics, we can measure that, but Councilman Watts is right as far as the lake levels being down and I'm not sure what you would compare that to as far injury accidents and things like that. Those are down too. Of course, you can attribute that to the lake level. There's a lot different factors and that's what I'm saying and if you want a report of the efficiency of the Sheriff's department I need to know what it is I'm supposed to be measuring." (couldn't understand next several comments well enough to write) Conclusion of this discussion: "Chief Clark, "So are we looking at acddent totals?" Councilman Kovatch, "Accident totals, whatever demand numbers we can get. Someone has said it's the fourth busiest lake, how do they know that? If they just pulled that number out 14 of the air, I'd like to know that too." Mayor Manning, "Do you want the report provided at a council meeting, do you want it put in our box, how do you want it presented?" Councilman Watts, "Let's do it in a public council meeting, so the citizens can be updated and maybe there will be something in the newspaper. I'd like for the Police Department, Fire Department, Parks & Rec to have some direction from council on this tonight. I know you all understand my attitude about the boat. It's a good attitude and I won't let go of it. I'm dead serious about our city being responsible for lake safety on our shores and I'm going on faith that all three of those departments have a very high conscientiousness in reference to lake safety and just continually update yourselves on what we can do, what we should be doing, what the cost will be for accomplishing it, how the Police Department and the Fire Department can interface, what Hidden Cove can add to it, what Hidden Cove needs as far as public safety goes, and don't be blind sided at budget time. To come out with a recommendation at budget time from three departments on what needs to be done. Is there a consensus on council that way before budget time on a consistent basis, be in the forefront on the department's minds and come budget time if personnel are needed, if bicycles are needed, if wave runners are needed, if a patrol boat is needed you guys be on top of it and bring it to us." Mayor Manning, "I think what Mr. Kovatch is looking for is a status report on how lake safety was this year by comparison to the previous years and that's what we are looking for in the way of a report. What you're talking about is something similar, but a little bit different. You're looking for support as well as how things have gone." Councilman Watts, "It's a request to take a serious look at how the Sheriffs efforts have been effective on lake problems. If they have not been effective, then they need to seriously consider Councilperson Watts' request to obtain and man a boat:on the lake, and that is why I made my comments is in response to his comments on a boat." Mayor Manning, "and those things need to be put into the budget process." Councilman Watts, "Which we are doing in January, right?" Councilman Kovatch, "I don't have a problem, 'to me the second half comes into play when the numbers come in." Councilman Watts, "If we are looking for future growth, if we are looking toward activities at Stewart Creek Park that will increase attendance, that will increase the need for public safety in those areas and it may be something more than just off-shore." Mayor Manning, "Let's shoot for either the second meeting in October or the first meeting in November." Mr. Smith, "We'll make contact with other departments." Mayor Manning, "within 45 days." Councilman Avey, "Mayor, I believe it was from the last work session that we were asking Patti to repeat what our direction and what was accomplished .during a work session." Mayor Manning, "What is your understanding of the last one (Wilma)? My problem is I don't think it's necessary. Does everyone really want her to repeat to us what I just said for God's sakes. We are going to have a report back to us the last meeting in October or the first one in November. Do we want her to say that over again?" Councilman Avey, "If you want to do it every time, that's fine, I don't have a problem with it but I'm cgncerned." Mayor Manning, "It's a waste of time." Councilman Avey, "It's a waste of time to walk away unclear on what has happened." Mayor Manning, 'Where will be a report back the end of October or first of November, now we are going to go on to future growth." 15 Councilman Avey, "May I make a motion to adjourn this meeting until we are all in a better mood"? Mayor Manning, "Sure." Councilman Dillard, "Second." Mayor Manning, "Second, those in favor say Aye, those in favor say No. We're adjourned." Councilman Dillard, 'I have one thing to say, I want to thank the staff for being here and giving up your time." The following items were not discussed. The meeting was adjourned at 8:10 p.m. FUTURE GROWTH 2. PARKS & RECREATION STEWART CREEK PARK BILL ALLEN MEMORIAL PARK VOLLEYBALL COURT YOUTH ACTIVITIES T.U.E. EASEMENT 3. ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BUDGET EDC/CHAMBER/ROTARY RELATIONSHIP DIRECTION OF EDC BOARD LIQUOR STORES 4. INFRASTRUCTURE STREET REPAIRS REGIONAL WASTEWATER TREATMENT BILLINGSLEY WATER TOWER RENAMING OF PLANO PARKWAY/PAIGE RD. 5. FACILITIES/EQUIPMENT FACILITIES MAINTENANCE CREW CONSTRUCTION MANAGER/CITY EMPLOYEES UTILITY BUll.DING REMODEL CITY HALL SECURITY VEHICLE PROTECTION 6. HOME INSPECTION ORDINANCE 7. BEAUTIFICATION 16 8. THE COLONY'S WEB SITE 9. CITY COUNCIL CARVER POLICY REPORTING GOALS & OBJECTIVES FOR CITY MANAGER AND CITY SECRETARY APPROVED: William W. Manning, Mayor A'ITEST: Patti A. Hicks,TRMC, CMC/AAE City Secretary 17